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Post by radusho on Sept 6, 2020 12:32:56 GMT -8
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Post by catocala59 on Sept 6, 2020 14:39:02 GMT -8
Judging historical actions by the standards of the current times will always end badly.
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Post by gaspipe on Sept 6, 2020 15:07:03 GMT -8
It is beyond stupidity.
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Post by eurytides on Sept 6, 2020 17:52:04 GMT -8
Agree, this is retarded. Everything offends someone these days, get over it. We shouldn’t repeat some mistakes going forward but erasing history and acting like that makes things better is just lunacy. The caveman who invented the wheel probably killed some people and treated women in his tribe badly. Should we get rid of all wheels from our society? What a load of bull###.
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Post by kevinkk on Sept 6, 2020 18:29:59 GMT -8
A dicey topic, since religion and politics have been banned in the forum, but my comment about the absurdity of political correctness is
that it is beyond stupid, to the point of being dangerous to everyone.
Revisionist history is ridiculous and my opinion about is that loud idiots get attention, and fearful people succumb to their idiocy.
I have my own plan for action if it ever barks at my door.
Personally, I'm offended by political correctness and the insidious way it manipulates society.
The present, what used to be the future, has a lot of shiny whistles and bells, but I am glad I grew up in the 60's and 70's, was it perfect-
of course not, but it didn't go around erasing history and facts.
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Post by leptraps on Sept 7, 2020 3:48:03 GMT -8
Political correctness: These two words can be really Scary. I have never been known to be politically correct. Just look at the cast of characters running for office. I have thought about running for office more once. Then I look at John Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Donald Trump and Diana Lee Felganhogger. Now there is a quartet that could give you a deadly case of the Hershey Squirt's....
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Post by Adam Cotton on Sept 7, 2020 5:15:28 GMT -8
Let's leave US politicians out of discussion of political correctness envisaged as applying to the Charles Darwin collection at BMNH. Unfortunately the article is behind a paywall and I can only read the first sentence without giving them my e-mail address for a "free trial". Maybe they want to try me for free  If someone has seen the whole article I would be interested to know what reason there is for whoever was complaining to cause the BMNH to consider the situation. Feel free to post details in this thread, as long as they apply to the Darwin collection and not wider political issues. Adam. |
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Post by nomihoudai on Sept 7, 2020 5:39:13 GMT -8
Yesterday I could read the article without the paywall. It didn't really have any specific examples, other than mentioning that Sloane profited from slave work. But it doesn't say in which way this was relevant to the collection or exhibition.
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Post by wollastoni on Sept 7, 2020 6:03:55 GMT -8
It reminds me the Cultural Revolution under Mao.
Let's destroy all European cities as they have been built with slavery income.
Let's also destroy all Arabic cities for the same reason ... and so on.
Or let's live together and be happy that slavery has been abolished.
China, Korea have been colonized too, they don't complain everyday about colonization, they work for a better future.
The racialist philosophy of the USA is now contaminating Europe too, very sad and dangerous.
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Post by wingedwishes on Sept 7, 2020 6:37:43 GMT -8
Many years ago when the Taliban ruled Afghanistan, they blew up ancient Buddhist statues. Why? Beautiful artwork. Just didn't agree with the philosophy. Now, its going on in some places in America. If someone black, white, Asian etc. insults me for my red race then there are two appropriate responses to me. 1. Do you understand what you said means something different to my people? 2. I'll be leaving now. Where others say "I have the right to be angry, furious, etc.....I say yes you have that right but I have the right to forgive the past without living in its sorrow yet neither forgetting.
When do violent uprisings {usually} stop? Right around the time federal forces are deployed...... Not a desirable end.
On a related note:
A textbook in school read that there were no survivors at the Little Big Horn.... I thought thousands of Lakota survived. Different cultures, different meanings.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Sept 7, 2020 7:20:34 GMT -8
Yesterday I could read the article without the paywall. It didn't really have any specific examples, other than mentioning that Sloane profited from slave work. But it doesn't say in which way this was relevant to the collection or exhibition. My brother told me the Daily Telegraph had temporarily removed the paywall during the blockade of their printers by Extinction Rebellion demonstrators. Obviously the paywall is now back up again. Pity I didn't know about it at the time. Adam. |
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Post by kevinkk on Sept 7, 2020 8:36:05 GMT -8
Yesterday I could read the article without the paywall. It didn't really have any specific examples, other than mentioning that Sloane profited from slave work. But it doesn't say in which way this was relevant to the collection or exhibition. My brother told me the Daily Telegraph had temporarily removed the paywall during the blockade of their printers by Extinction Rebellion demonstrators. Obviously the paywall is now back up again. Pity I didn't know about it at the time. Adam. I guess I got lucky- strike that. My timing was good and I read the article. It was interesting, if you find continuing and expanding revisionist history interesting,and reading about obscure ways of being offended by reality. What it is, is disheartening, at some point in the future, people are not going to have a single clue as to what happened in the past.It's going to be a sci-fi world of burned and banned books covered with smashed up statuary. I'm sure I won't be around to see the re-education camps. I think quite a few people did survive the battle at Bighorn, and many empires and fortunes are currently being built on the backs of others, when is that going to be erased? What people need to resist, is not what the "popular" populace would have you resist. Change is coming, I'm sure I've heard that somewhere, but is that change going to do any real good? Unlikely. |
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Post by yorky on Sept 7, 2020 11:29:50 GMT -8
There is a major flaw with this way of thinking, just because something offends us doesn’t make us right. Thus those in society who choose to be offended at everything they don't agree with seem to erroneously think that being offended offers some sort of moral high ground, that is why we have so many people campaigning for causes of which they have little or no comprehension as the root of their indignation comes from the fact that they merely don't agree with a particular principle or are offended by it. I happen to agree with Stephen Fry and how he handles people who say that they are offended by something he has said, he simply replies "so f@#@ing what"
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Post by exoticimports on Sept 8, 2020 4:31:59 GMT -8
Here it is not behind a paywall (not for me, not right now) www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8702867/Natural-History-museum-review-Charles-Darwin-exhibitions-HMS-Beagle-colonialist.htmlIf colonialism is used as an indicator of science neo-hate, most all scientific collections are at the mercy of the destructors. Book collections, in particular- we've already seen books stricken from school reading lists; books sticken from Amazon. Virtually every book of discover and science written in the 1700s and 1800s (and probably later) will be identified as offensive. So what will BMNH (and others) do with these books? With original manuscripts? Are specimens collected under colonialist endeavors (e.g., with colonialist money, by slave or conscripted collectors, without the permission of indigenous landowners, etc.) be destroyed? Be removed from pubic display? And what of Bernard D'Abrera's books? Creationism is most offensive to some powerful groups; will his books be removed? Destroyed? The entire movement to rewrite and destroy science is frightening, but isn't new to mankind. Chuck |
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Post by Paul K on Sept 8, 2020 7:04:57 GMT -8
Such a non-sense!
We should focus on present slavery and try to resolve that issue rather than waisting time and resources to make changes of the past.
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Post by exoticimports on Sept 9, 2020 4:51:16 GMT -8
there were no survivors at the Little Big Horn.... I thought thousands of Lakota survived. That's priceless! It is all perspective. The Seneca Nation has a nifty museum and it tells all about how the French came and burned up their villages; oh those poor, defenseless natives! Somehow the Senecas fail to mention, in their version, that at the time all their men were off eliminating the Hurons and attacking the Neutral Nations; maybe if they'd stayed home they could have defended their homeland...but that's conveniently overlooked and the saddened white man visitor only gets half the story. |
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Post by wingedwishes on Sept 9, 2020 5:24:14 GMT -8
It is very true exoticimports. ALL groups write their own history and tilt toward themselves but it is the victor who gets to circulate the 'correct' history. There was even a cannibal aboriginal American tribe who averaged 6' tall (all dead now). One of African slave ship was captained by an aboriginal black African man. Our vision appears to me to be colored by the traditions and community around us. A tool that is neither good nor evil in itself. How the tool is used is where judgement will be passed by our ancestors.
I learned in Florida with so many cultures present (New Yorkers, UK, Canadians, Greeks, Mid Westerners,and other 'Snow Birds') that what comes out of someones mouth may not have the same meaning to me.
One of many examples - 'Cracker' is an insult to many whites. To some white folks in Florida it is the job of a hard worker 'cracking' a whip over oxen to motivate to move and work hard and so is a compliment.
I remember a conversation here about a particular female politician where the member said he would like to see her wearing nothing but suspenders. To me, a pair of suspenders clip onto pants to hold them up and I asked him where a naked woman would clip suspenders. To an Englishman, suspenders meant something like a garter belt. Misunderstanding language nuance has caused much difficulty. In this example, the beauty of the woman was crudely complimented but the words did not communicate it. Apologies if recounting this as an example has irritated.
How refreshing that this conversation has remained cordial. Thanks guys (guys having been used as a gender neutral all inclusive moniker to attempt to communicate a tone of conviviality wherein no adverse intentions were present by myself).
Cheers!
Tyson
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Post by exoticimports on Sept 9, 2020 6:00:09 GMT -8
My burly Australian mate wears thongs.
How's that!!??
Chuck
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Post by leptraps on Sept 9, 2020 7:32:09 GMT -8
I read a book about General George Armstrong Custer. Not one of his better days. He was killed and scalped along with all his men.
Several years ago my late wife and I visited Little Big Horn. I was well worth the trip.
I would suggest you read a book about General George Custer before visiting the Battle Field Site.
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Post by leptraps on Sept 9, 2020 7:52:42 GMT -8
We as Americans know very little of the culture of others races. I managed a plant in Greenwood, Mississippi. And yes, I can spell Mississippi correctly.
Although segregation was very evident, my late wife and I declined to join a church in Greenwood, Mississippi. Church's were either one color or the other. We did however visit funeral homes for the employees and their families.
However, I saw racial hatred in full color.
Every Christmas my wife and I held a Christmas Party at our home for my staff. Both Black and White. No one was required to attend. However, everyone of my staff made an appearance.
I was told by the LeFlore County Sheriff, who was White, that Mississippi needed more people like me.
Regardless of how difficult life can be, you can make a difference.
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Post by wingedwishes on Sept 9, 2020 9:32:08 GMT -8
Conversely, 30 years ago I applied for a state job to study population densities of native wildlife. There was a man waiting to be interviewed who was white. As we waited to be interviewed we talked. He was far more accredited and experienced. I knew he would get the job. Strangely, I was called to fill the position. When I asked why the other guy did not get the job I was told "well.....he ummmm...wasn't like me....you know.....tribal." The government wanted me only to fill a racial quota. Man was I angry. I had my foolish pride. I turned down the job. I might have been different later though.
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Post by wingedwishes on Sept 9, 2020 9:35:42 GMT -8
My burly Australian mate wears thongs. How's that!!?? Chuck Ummm.Wow. Of course here in America, your mate is your spouse. I do understand the difference between your mates and polygamy..... |
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Post by exoticimports on Sept 9, 2020 12:10:52 GMT -8
wingedwishes- "never look a gift horse in the mouth" So since we're on to stories- my buddy, I'll call him Dave, was working in the DC area. Dave is a real history buff. His father and grandfather are & were veterans. So Dave tells a taxi driver to take him to the nearest VFW. He's greeted outside the door by this VERY large black guy, and asks if the VFW is open. "SURE IS", says the greeter, "COME ON IN!" Dave walks in to discover that this is a BLACK VFW post! Everyone, except him, is black. He said he can barely remember the final couple hours there. And he's going back next time.
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