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Post by Adam Cotton on Oct 4, 2019 9:07:10 GMT -8
I think (AS A MODERATOR) it is time to tone down the comments aimed at other Insectnet members. I would rather not edit/delete posts, but things seem to be getting a bit less friendly in this thread.
Let's keep posts ON TOPIC of climate change, WITHOUT ATTACKING members who disagree with you.
It is one thing making comments about opinions of talking heads in Youtube videos, and another being unfriendly towards forum members.
Adam.
PS. This warning is not aimed at any one particular member, it is for everyone.
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Post by gaspipe on Oct 4, 2019 14:11:04 GMT -8
What, no snide remarks.... Then bring some Leroy. You can do it, as you did it before. Something about farts and a dubious video from someone that is not a member of this forum. Back to work... Jan As I said in an earlier post I am willing to accept mankind (oops is that politically correct?) has had an impact . I simply feel all your “studies “ have inherent flaws because they never account for even a small percentage of the variables in the climate equation . |
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Post by phanaeus1 on Oct 4, 2019 18:57:14 GMT -8
No offense or snide remark intended! but Honorable Sir: you frequently refer to "NARF"= is this a form of partison flatulence? Nasty.Ass.Republican.Fart.?/and is there a lift wing version?NADF? Just a'wondering in Walmart....
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Post by exoticimports on Oct 5, 2019 4:50:08 GMT -8
It would have been interesting to be a (modern) scientist 1200 years ago during the previous warming. For example, I wonder what species existed in the alpine mountain islands of the American south west. We know what unique fauna exists there now- how many species were lost to that warming event that we will never know existed?
How did the polar bear survive that event as a species? It was far warmer then than it is today. How did they adapt and await the return to cooler climate? Did the species perhaps just barely survive, and then recover from an isolated population?
Go back further, before the previous ice age 10,000 years ago. During that ice age there were zero Leps in Ontario, Canada since it was covered by a sheet of ice. All species in Ontario are rebounds from southern species following that climatic event. What was there before? I’m musing here...P canadiensis must have come from an ancestor in the glaucus complex and moved/ evolved north. Going back pre ice age, I wonder if there were a different species like canadiensis, but not canadiensis as we know it- a species that perished with no record.
With round after round of climate fluctuations, I wonder how many species disappeared that we will never know anything about.
Chuck
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Post by leptraps on Oct 5, 2019 5:54:11 GMT -8
No offense or snide remark intended! but Honorable Sir: you frequently refer to "NARF"= is this a form of partison flatulence? Nasty.Ass.Republican.Fart.?/and is there a lift wing version?NADF? Just a'wondering in Walmart.... I have read your remarks, you lead a sheltered life. NARF is a Acronym. Naturally Aspirated Rectal Fluids. NARF. That comes when you pop a juicy "Fart" and you leave speckel marks in your shorts. Bleach will generally remove NARF unless you consume Sauerkraut. Sauerkraut generally results in Splatter. Then you will need lots of TP followed by a shower with soap and hot water. As a result you will burn your skivvies. I hope my explanation was educational! "Lift Wing" was a new one. However, that must occur when a Democrap slightly lifts his left leg to let one fly and it comes out lumpy... Enough of this childish humor. I have have moths to ID and place in my collection. |
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Post by gaspipe on Oct 5, 2019 16:20:46 GMT -8
On another note, Greta Thunberg made a surprise visit at a climate strike in Iowa City, Iowa, Friday 4th October. Only 3000 persons turned up, as her appearance was apparently also only announced to a small circle of local climate activists, on a short notice. A local high school science teacher was placed under administrative leave after making a threatening comment on Facebook saying "Don't have my sniper riffle", when asked if he would like to join the climate strike. Wonder what that "science" teacher is actually teaching his students in 2019! It can't be real science though. A science teacher that is still stuck in the carbon ages. The Guardian quoted Thunberg in Iowa: " Explaining why she believes she is now on the receiving end of criticism from world leaders like Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin, she suggested: “They do it because they see something that is threatening and they want to silence that and if they don’t have anything else to say, if they can’t criticize the science, which is all we are saying, then they start attacking us personally and sending threats and hate and so on so maybe they can’t cope with it.“It could definitely be they feel threatened by a new generation,” she added “There is a lot of young people especially young girls in this movement who are leading and maybe they don’t like that, I don’t know!” Grownups behaving like small kids.... Jan You have consumed the koolaid and have closed your mind . As long as it’s considered a “ scientific study” you will swallow it hook , line , and sinker. There are probably conservatively, hundreds of variables (most beyond any human ability to control)that affect climate and yet you are willing to consider proposals that not only would be disruptive beyond imagination, impossible to fund , unenforceable, and without even a shred of evidence any would have even a bit of impact on climate. I’ll say it again ; complete nonsense. I hope the kind moderator does not edit this post as was done with my last one . I trust I’ve been more delicate . |
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Post by Adam Cotton on Oct 6, 2019 9:41:36 GMT -8
I reluctantly decided not to edit this post, but please try to avoid any comments aimed at forum members.
Just to make it clear, I am not specifically aiming my moderation at you or any particular viewpoint.
Adam.
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Post by gaspipe on Oct 6, 2019 12:41:16 GMT -8
I reluctantly decided not to edit this post, but please try to avoid any comments aimed at forum members. Just to make it clear, I am not specifically aiming my moderation at you or any particular viewpoint. Adam. Fair enough. My reply was aimed at the calling out of Leptraps and also , while admitting indirectly , me. In any event I’ve said my peace . Great forum . Peace and out. Sincerely Gaspipe |
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rjb
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Post by rjb on Oct 27, 2019 4:49:18 GMT -8
Just got back from another month in Europe and I see this topic is still going strong.
One thing that has been mentioned by gaspipe is that the models of the climate do not include all the necessary variables. This is almost certainly a wrong idea. At least it would take an expert in climate modeling to make such a statement, and he/she would then mention the missing variable, would include it in the model and would show what effect it has.
I was a research scientist for most of my career studying plasma chemistry/physics. Plasmas are notoriously complex systems, equal or worse than the climate in complexity. I worked years measuring plasma behavior and comparing to modelling attempts. In my last decade of work, I did plasma-modeling software development and plasma simulations on thousands of massively-parallel processors. My wife also worked with both experiments and modeling of chemical systems used to make microelectronic device chips, and her models are still used by the chip manufacturers to refine the processes. We really understand modeling of complex systems.
These models, like the climate models are very complex, but they yield results that are correct- meaning that the experimenters check and say the model predicted correctly. The climate model cannot say whether the USA will have a cold year or whether there will be cloudiness over Germany next week. Likewise I could not use my plasma model to say lots of plasma details, but I could predict some things very well- good enough to guide the device designers.
Importantly, with many models of climate available and many hundreds of scientists using them, it is ridiculous to say the models have missed something, unless you can say what you think they are missing. You might think insects are eating lots of wood and belching methane and the models have forgotten to include this. As soon as it is suggested, and the numbers look plausible, then some researcher will add this to the model and see if it does anything (I suspect termites are already accounted for).
The model does not have to be perfect to give very good results. That is what the error bars on the predictions are all about.
So I would suggest you forget about criticizing the models unless you can flesh out the weakness you perceive.
Rick
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Post by exoticimports on Oct 27, 2019 6:17:09 GMT -8
So I would suggest you forget about criticizing the models unless you can flesh out the weakness you perceive. Rick I can't argue your point, except to say that scientists, like so many organizations, are guided by cash rather than science. Anything funded by government is suspect, as governments have agendas, as does the notoriously corrupt UN. That climate is changing is, in my observation, true. Some- maybe most- of it is due to mankind. No kidding. We dump loads of gasses and chemicals into the earth. What concerns me is radio waves. We have signals of a huge spectrum running through our bodies constantly, and for the most part nobody cares. Sure, some studies show mobile phone radio waves cause cancer. The government says don't worry. When I think about the big bucks behind mobile phones and other radio transmitters though, I question whether there might be a serious problem that's being covered up. Back on climate change, and a student of science I look for outliers and evidence that questions the purported conclusion. Is it not our duty to do so? That said, I've posted here, and elsewhere, some supposedly simple questions and get zero response. These are: 1. So 1000 years ago Greenland was inhabitable and they raised cattle and sheep. Then it got cold. What does this mean about global warming? Are we in a cold period and perhaps returning to normal? 2. My friends in Tuvalu and Majuro sure don't like king tides and cite global warming as the cause of massive flooding. But what were Funafuti and Majuro like 1000 years ago? Were they under water? Was this perhaps natural, and the current exposed atolls a freak of cooling? 3. If the oceans are indeed rising- and we are lead to believe to unprecedented levels- why is there fossilized coral above the shoreline on Rarotonga? Why are there tons of marine fossils 10 meters above sea level on Tetepare? Instead, I get some twelve year old Youtube twit spouting. Look, I'm not a disbeliever, I'm just playing devil's advocate and the bandwagon doesn't want to address it- which makes me question the motives and study results. I mean, if we have so many advocates and experts, why can't I get an answer? Chuck |
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Post by gaspipe on Oct 27, 2019 10:19:31 GMT -8
So I would suggest you forget about criticizing the models unless you can flesh out the weakness you perceive. Rick I can't argue your point, except to say that scientists, like so many organizations, are guided by cash rather than science. Anything funded by government is suspect, as governments have agendas, as does the notoriously corrupt UN. That climate is changing is, in my observation, true. Some- maybe most- of it is due to mankind. No kidding. We dump loads of gasses and chemicals into the earth. What concerns me is radio waves. We have signals of a huge spectrum running through our bodies constantly, and for the most part nobody cares. Sure, some studies show mobile phone radio waves cause cancer. The government says don't worry. When I think about the big bucks behind mobile phones and other radio transmitters though, I question whether there might be a serious problem that's being covered up. Back on climate change, and a student of science I look for outliers and evidence that questions the purported conclusion. Is it not our duty to do so? That said, I've posted here, and elsewhere, some supposedly simple questions and get zero response. These are: 1. So 1000 years ago Greenland was inhabitable and they raised cattle and sheep. Then it got cold. What does this mean about global warming? Are we in a cold period and perhaps returning to normal? 2. My friends in Tuvalu and Majuro sure don't like king tides and cite global warming as the cause of massive flooding. But what were Funafuti and Majuro like 1000 years ago? Were they under water? Was this perhaps natural, and the current exposed atolls a freak of cooling? 3. If the oceans are indeed rising- and we are lead to believe to unprecedented levels- why is there fossilized coral above the shoreline on Rarotonga? Why are there tons of marine fossils 10 meters above sea level on Tetepare? Instead, I get some twelve year old Youtube twit spouting. Look, I'm not a disbeliever, I'm just playing devil's advocate and the bandwagon doesn't want to address it- which makes me question the motives and study results. I mean, if we have so many advocates and experts, why can't I get an answer? Chuck Bingo |
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Post by wollastoni on Oct 27, 2019 10:45:09 GMT -8
3 : for the same reason that you will find sea fossils on the summit of mountains : tectonic plates, volcanism...
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Post by jshuey on Oct 28, 2019 6:46:27 GMT -8
I'll admit, I can't read many of the asinine comments in this thread - I just don't have the patience.
But if you want evidence that "change is coming" take a look at strategic plans of electric utilities in your region. Here in Indiana (one of the most coal-reliant states in the US), two major electric utilities are planning to be 100% renewable by 2030. One, NIPSCO, has gone public with the news. Both are aggressively investing in solar, wind and storage. Even Duke Energy (the dirtiest of the dirtiest) makes it clear that all coal and natural gas will be phased in the foreseeable future, they just have put together a timeline yet.
That's the future of companies that want to still be in business 50-100 years from now.
john
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rjb
Full Member
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Post by rjb on Oct 28, 2019 8:01:00 GMT -8
Exoticimports writes that he doesn’t trust anything funded by government money. To each his own, but my experience of science funding is very different.
During my career, I was mostly funded by government money (it was a National Lab after all), but also some corporate money, Goodyear, Texas Instruments, Applied Materials etc. I also talked to an immense number of scientists at conferences. Never in all those years did I hear of anyone being pressured to report anything other than their true results of experiments or computations. The only exception is that often if a pharmaceutical or other business funds my work I may sign a non-disclosure agreement that limits what I can publish. For a scientist like me it is almost absurd to hear it suggested that the government would tell me what I must report. The government administrators decide on program directions and the politics of the day affect these directions. During the Reagan years, nuclear power was more emphasized and other energy sources like solar and wind were de-emphasized. Under Clinton, renewables were emphasized and nuclear was less supported. Obama pushed the study of pollinators, honey bees and native pollinators and scientists I was working with got some of that. Mostly the research shifted directions, but nobody handing out the money ever said what I should find out.
The government might fund global warming research more or less, but the people funding the programs never say what results you should get. Hypothetically a scientist with a climate model would write for a grant to study how different models for cloud formation and global cloud dynamics could influence climate. Never would any scientist be pressured to say the new cloud model should make global warming more (or less) scary. The scientist will get whatever the model shows. If the result says forget global warming, it won’t happen because the increased cloud cover will reflect enough heat to neutralize the warming after the first 2 degrees, this would simply get published. All the other modelers would try this cloud method and if it all panned out (was reproducible), the first scientist would get the Nobel Prize, and we’d all breathe a sigh of relief. For decades, this hasn’t happened. Every idea has simply reinforced that we are in big trouble with the climate.
The government is a giant monstrosity with inertia which funds research with a certain level of mild political interference. Don’t trust it if that makes you happy. You are then imagining a level of interference in science which does not really happen. If I had a model that showed climate change is not caused by fossil-fuel burning, I would publish it immediately. Exxon would gladly fund all my future work. As soon as other scientists confirmed that I wasn’t doing anything wrong, I would accept my Nobel Prize.
Rick
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Post by leptraps on Oct 30, 2019 4:38:34 GMT -8
Before all of you get giggly and goofy, most of us on this site live in a western civilized culture. Think about China and India. Virtually no concerns for air quality or for global warming. There are several billion people who could give a rats ass less, they are worried about where there next meal is coming from.
If you really want to prevent CO2 emission, stop consuming beans. Just think how much CO2 are bodies emit.
I might be classied as a major air polluter.
I feel better now. I just addressed a major global issue and developed a simple solution
Beside, I have really gotten in to cold weather/Winter Moths. I think I will have Mexican for lunch today.
A double helping of refried beans should do it.
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Post by leptraps on Oct 30, 2019 4:48:46 GMT -8
Wait a minute! It just popped into my mind. Stop the use of toilet paper. Tree's emit oxygen, right? We cut down trees to make toilet paper. We should grow more trees, harvest the leaves daily. Sell those leaves in the produce section. Once used, bury the leaves in your yard. That completes a cycle.
I just solved a global problem.
Off to the Waffle House. If my idea takes effect, that will be the end of Waffle Houses. I am willing to make a little sacrifice.
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Post by gaspipe on Oct 30, 2019 7:35:00 GMT -8
Wait a minute! It just popped into my mind. Stop the use of toilet paper. Tree's emit oxygen, right? We cut down trees to make toilet paper. We should grow more trees, harvest the leaves daily. Sell those leaves in the produce section. Once used, bury the leaves in your yard. That completes a cycle. I just solved a global problem. Off to the Waffle House. If my idea takes effect, that will be the end of Waffle Houses. I am willing to make a little sacrifice. Great advice . I will start by using both sides of the toilet paper first until I collect enough leaves. I have not yet mentioned these changes to my wife .Climate alarmists always seem to forget China. and India. But then again toilet paper is a special treat in these countries. |
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Post by leptraps on Oct 30, 2019 9:27:48 GMT -8
I just had one of the great ideas I seem to come up with every now and then. Eliminate the use of Toilet paper altogether. Use your fingers!! You wash your hands after taking a dump? Of course it would be a disaster for the Colonel. It would bring a new meaning to the words of Kentucky Fried Chicken: Finger Licking Good. Am I bad or what?  ? |
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Post by leptraps on Nov 3, 2019 13:41:45 GMT -8
Well, I must admit to being a little light hearted. However, I consider myself to be an amateur scientists of sorts. My ability to design and develop traps to attract and collect insects that are effective, affordable and easy to use.
You can say what you want and think, I fit that criteria. Even on this site I encourage you and others to collect and study Lepidoptera, basically moths per say.
Again I will also admit to being a
little light hearted. My sense of humor can be slightly twisted to say the least. Then again, I enjoy getting "Let's Get among them"....
Having said all that, this site would be rather dull without me.
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Post by exoticimports on Nov 3, 2019 16:59:13 GMT -8
Leroy, we all love you.
Europeans tend to see themselves as more cultured. Because they are. No European would enjoy Waffle House. And, I’m sorry, for good reason.
But Culture does not indicate intelligence nor integrity nor anything else.
So you be you. Keep doing what you do.
Chuck
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Post by gaspipe on Nov 3, 2019 17:04:39 GMT -8
Well, I must admit to being a little light hearted. However, I consider myself to be an amateur scientists of sorts. My ability to design and develop traps to attract and collect insects that are effective, affordable and easy to use. You can say what you want and think, I fit that criteria. Even on this site I encourage you and others to collect and study Lepidoptera, basically moths per say. Again I will also admit to being a little light hearted. My sense of humor can be slightly twisted to say the least. Then again, I enjoy getting "Let's Get among them".... Having said all that, this site would be rather dull without me. Iam new here you are a great source of information and give it generously. Don’t apologize to the nay sayers ; they are the only virtuous ones in their minds. I think you need to fart again ! Let er rip |
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Post by Paul K on Nov 12, 2019 7:18:39 GMT -8
Nov 11, Toronto received 15cm of snow and record cold temperatures are on the way for next couple of days with overnight lows at -14°C and windchill effect around -20°C.
Global warming is not so global. According to scientists melting polar ice is causing polar cold air shift to North American continent and some parts of Russia which will bring colder and longer winters in the future.
Last few summers were colder and with more rainy days.
How long will that last, don’t know but I think is time to migrate some warmer place and enjoy global warming.
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Post by exoticimports on Nov 12, 2019 12:50:49 GMT -8
I’m with you Paul! Stores are out of snow brushes so I bought every aeresol can I could and am now emptying them into the atmosphere.
Chuck
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Post by gaspipe on Nov 13, 2019 12:41:47 GMT -8
Nov 11, Toronto received 15cm of snow and record cold temperatures are on the way for next couple of days with overnight lows at -14°C and windchill effect around -20°C. Global warming is not so global. According to scientists melting polar ice is causing polar cold air shift to North American continent and some parts of Russia which will bring colder and longer winters in the future. Last few summers were colder and with more rainy days. How long will that last, don’t know but I think is time to migrate some warmer place and enjoy global warming. I heard that the Sidney area is a good warm place to go these days. Nice and warm! I think you shouldn't expect to see too many butterflies there though, but I might just be mistaken as the current reports of bush fires might all be leftist fake news. And unlike those stupid kids that climate strike on Fridays, in NSW they had more than 600 schools (not students, schools!) closed today. Stupid kids if they strike on climate change. They should just wait for their schools closing down in bush fires and maybe even burning down all together! Then they don't even need to go to school anymore! Could this be the Greta Thunberg illuminati? What's not to like? It's already happening - that is, if its not fake news. Aussies and the rest of the world just need some more of that "cleeean coal" that the special snowflake-in-chief has shown us exist. He knows better than scientists how clean coal is:   Jan Love it your hero is some girl not old enough to drive . My grandchild is 4 and has it all over Greta the aspiring actress. . You call it climate change here in the northeast US we call it the seasons. |
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Post by jshuey on Nov 13, 2019 16:57:20 GMT -8
Nov 11, Toronto received 15cm of snow and record cold temperatures are on the way for next couple of days with overnight lows at -14°C and windchill effect around -20°C. Global warming is not so global. According to scientists melting polar ice is causing polar cold air shift to North American continent and some parts of Russia which will bring colder and longer winters in the future. Last few summers were colder and with more rainy days. How long will that last, don’t know but I think is time to migrate some warmer place and enjoy global warming. One of the major issues, is that too many people confuse weather with climate..... john |
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