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Post by lordpandarus on Dec 30, 2016 10:31:59 GMT -8
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Post by Paul K on Dec 30, 2016 16:57:08 GMT -8
When they become mass production, the value will be very little and no one will be amazed about them. Paul |
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Post by lordpandarus on Jan 3, 2017 6:47:48 GMT -8
I find their color pattern amazing, that's why I'd want one. I don't care about it's monetary value
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Post by jshuey on Jan 3, 2017 7:32:19 GMT -8
I find their color pattern amazing, that's why I'd want one. I don't care about it's monetary value They are amazing looking insects. Their existence and apparent ease of production (I've seen about 10 of these for sale recently)confirms what taxonomists now consider to be a settled issue - there is no genus Agrias. They are all Prepona. John |
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Post by Paul K on Jan 3, 2017 7:32:55 GMT -8
I see, I misunderstood your post.
Indeed some insects have little value but they are beautiful. I wish more people could see and discover them this way.
Cheers
Paul
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Post by dynastes on Jan 26, 2017 12:59:08 GMT -8
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Post by dynastes on Jan 26, 2017 13:03:24 GMT -8
Hybrid Agrias claudina lugens x Prepona dexamenus photo from internet Attachments:
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Post by lordpandarus on Jan 26, 2017 15:42:08 GMT -8
The one in your first post is very beautiful and perfect
The one in the post just above is not set correctly unfortunately , very bent shoulders .I noticed a lot of the specimens I 've seen offered have this problem to some extent. Maybe they didn't let the wings dry enough after emerging
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Post by lordpandarus on May 24, 2018 23:26:48 GMT -8
I see a lot of them on ebay now
Prices are going down from over 1000$ to around 200$ thyese days
I might get one of them someday
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2018 0:32:34 GMT -8
Me too Lord P, stunning butterflies.
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Post by lordpandarus on May 25, 2018 19:51:15 GMT -8
A lot of Agrias have blue hind wings, but they need a bright light shined on them or a flash picture for the blue to show.
On the other hand the light blue of this Prepona band should be very contrasting
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Post by africaone on May 26, 2018 7:35:46 GMT -8
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Post by lordpandarus on May 26, 2018 7:53:04 GMT -8
I think whoever is breeding them is killing them too early after emerging. I see a lot of bent shoulders in set specimens indicating they might be difficult to spread
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Post by beetlehorn on May 26, 2018 8:08:12 GMT -8
Indeed they look stunning. I have never been a fan of hybridizing lepidoptera, unless it occurs in nature, (for example Hyalophora kasloensis). I suppose it could occur in the wilds of the Neotropics, but we cannot be sure unless someone actually catches a wild hybridized specimen, then to myself this is all man induced, and conjecture. To me they are merely collectibles, and conversation pieces, although beautiful and interesting.
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Post by trehopr1 on May 26, 2018 18:28:05 GMT -8
I too really admire these hybrids; they are stunning. I don't foresee these going down much in price for some time. At least not the GOOD examples... All the rest of the bent shoulder, wing marred, shoddy pinned stuff will still sell off at much reduced prices to those of less discriminating taste. One has to pay the price to have one of the best. Perhaps in time someone will figure out how to achieve more choice examples from their breeding efforts. However, even if this is achieved those in the know will probably only release the "best" examples at a trickle so as to not flood the market and make them worthless.
Jshuey, I am curious what exactly happens now to the Agrias genus? I am not a taxonomists like yourself so I'm just wondering how the nomenclature will play out. Thanks for any input.
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Post by hewi on May 27, 2018 13:27:24 GMT -8
There is a natural hybrid between Agrias and Prepona.
It had been described as a new species: Prepona sarumani SMART, 1976
It was assumed that this was a cross between Prepona praeneste and Agrias claudina.
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Post by leptraps on May 27, 2018 16:20:34 GMT -8
I have only collected a few family's of Neotropical butterflies and moths. Hamadryas, Marpesia, Anaea and Catagrama. I also collected moths, Arctidea and Sphingidea. I donated all of the moths to the McGuire Center years ago. I debate with my cats whether or not to donate the butterflies to the McGuire Center as well.
I can understand the attraction to Neotropical Lepidoptera. They are stunning creatures. However, I cannot believe the prices that some of you pay for them. I am not a poor man, however, I would rather take Momma out west to see the great splendor of nature than to purchase expensive rarities from the Neotropics.
It might prove otherwise if I actually went to the Neotropics to collect. I would probably go nuts. My wife thinks I'm nuts already.
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Post by lordpandarus on May 28, 2018 18:24:01 GMT -8
Like I said many times, my usual limit is about 100$ for a butterfly if it is an extremely beautiful species, and i've rarely paid that even
Made an exception for the Charaxes fournierae at 350$, which is probably the most i ever paid for a single species. I also did get a Prepona werneri for 250$,P. brooksiana escalantiana for 200$ and female spring form P. hermeli for 200$ but that's about it
Even with my price limit I managed to get 95% of the "beautiful" worldwide species over the years in A1 by being patient
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Post by kirkwilliams on Jun 1, 2018 17:32:27 GMT -8
I recently acquired two of these hybrids from Tony in Peru. They were extremely difficult to relax and set. The buckling at the forewing main vein attachment was difficult to overcome. I suspected that the problem was how they were killed and Tony confessed that many of the Peruvian specimens are killed by injecting Formalin!
The effect, just as in all histology specimens, is tix FIX and preserve living tissue. I believe this accounts for the inability to rehydrate the muscle tissue, thus the difficulty in setting. Tony said they have no alternative in the steamy jungle. This is a terrible practice and you cannot guarantee its use until too late. They dont seem to use this in other parts of the world. Even specimens from Michael Büche have suffered this fate. Kirk
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Post by lordpandarus on Jun 1, 2018 20:09:54 GMT -8
yeah, looking at all the set specimens so far I knew it was something like that
That's a major reason why I wouldn't get one because your almost guaranteed to screw up the setting, and your post confirms it's very risky to buy one
I figure it's the same thing with those Papilio androgeos females I tried to set and failed several times
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Post by bobw on Jun 2, 2018 0:27:19 GMT -8
I should imagine that Tony and Michael probably use a lot of the same suppliers so it's not surprising that their specimens could have similar problems. Michael supplies most of his material already set so presumably he must have some way of overcoming the problem.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2018 0:35:45 GMT -8
Had the same problem years back from the same source with a male anaeomorpha splendida, took a week to relax and was a complete and utter pain to set.
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Post by nomihoudai on Jun 2, 2018 1:50:56 GMT -8
When they have been heavily struck by formol the only escape is to cut the muscle at the top and glue the wing in place. I once went through a huge shipment with formol damage and it was a nightmare.
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Post by leptraps on Jun 2, 2018 2:41:08 GMT -8
Question? Because I prepare fresh specimens that I have collected and/or either mount fresh or from a freezer. I rehydrate most specimens from the freezer and they easily spread. Every now and then you get one that just likes to be ornery. I must then cut wing muscles. And once in a blue moon I get one that absolutely will not cooperate. Thrash time and onto the next specimen.
Now if I paid several hundred dollars for specimens, I would be lamenting like some of you. This leads to my question: What is this chemical Formol? And, how is it used?
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jun 2, 2018 5:27:20 GMT -8
It's formalin, used to be known as formaldehyde. Presumably "formol" is the Czech(?) word for this chemical.
Here in Thailand, apart from scientific use to preserve dead animals it is generally used to preserve bodies during the several days, or sometimes much longer, of funeral ceremonies.
30+ years ago here local insect catchers used to kill beetles with formalin. It makes the muscle tissue all hard and rubbery, and it is impossible to relax them afterwards.
Adam.
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