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Post by Khalid Fadil on Sept 23, 2011 7:13:06 GMT -8
I'd like to know how to determine Actias Selene Selene from Actias Selene Vandenberghi. They both look the same! Any help, please...?
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Post by saturniidave on Sept 23, 2011 14:17:00 GMT -8
Easy. Selene selene is the one you get all over Asia and vandenbergi is from Java and Sumatra. Vandenbergi has much more pointed wingtips and is a bluer green with stronger markings. If anyone has one to trade I will be extremely interested! Dave
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Post by Khalid Fadil on Sept 23, 2011 16:15:11 GMT -8
Well, I actually have one. But, since you said Vandenberghi is only found in Java and Sumatra, I guess the one I have is a regular Selene... The thing is, Dave... I bought mine from a local supplier who gets stuff in from all around the world. It was the only specimen around when I bought it. So, there's actually a possibility for mine being either one. I'll tag the photo to you on FaceBook for you to identify.
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Post by lucanidae25 on Sept 23, 2011 23:04:43 GMT -8
I have collected one Actias Selene male myself when I was in Sabah Borneo. Is that Vandenberghi?
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Post by nomihoudai on Sept 24, 2011 1:48:13 GMT -8
You don't know wher your specimen is from ?? Just toss it in the garbage...
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Post by wingedwishes on Sept 24, 2011 2:05:53 GMT -8
While data is very important, please do not throw it out. Only the scientific value is gone. For art or education, it retains a value. I'd be happy to take any such garbage from you nomihoudai.
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Post by nomihoudai on Sept 24, 2011 2:26:43 GMT -8
I never get stuff without data so I can't share any of it I am also a very picky buyer, either it got latitude/longitude or it is from a small island (50km maximum in size ) where it does not really matter...if it hasn't got anything of that I don't even think about buying.
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Post by Khalid Fadil on Sept 24, 2011 5:35:46 GMT -8
I have collected one Actias Selene male myself when I was in Sabah Borneo. Is that Vandenberghi? That would be Actias Selene Selene.
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Post by Khalid Fadil on Sept 24, 2011 5:38:35 GMT -8
You don't know wher your specimen is from ?? Just toss it in the garbage... Sorry to tell you this, nomi... But, with or without data, any specimen is still a thing of beauty and therefore still has some sort of value. With that been said, there's not the slightest chance I'll be throwing anything into the garbage. Also, personally... You telling me to do such a thing kind of hurts my feelings because you could say around half of my collection is made up from data-less specimens. Are you implying that my collection is garbage?
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Post by oehlkew on Sept 24, 2011 11:17:28 GMT -8
Here is info I have on Actias selene vandenberghi on WLSS: Actias selene vandenberghi (wingspan: males: 133mm; females: 147mm) flies in western Malaysia: Cameron-Highlands: Tapah Hills, Fraser's Hill; Sumatra and Borneo: Sabah. In Heterocera Sumatrana Volume 10, 1996 Saturniidae the Actias selene subspecies is given as A. s. sietzi, Kalis, 1934. "However, as was shown by U. & L. H. Paukstadt (1999, “Anmerkungen zum taxonomischen Status von Actias selene seitzi Kalis 1934 und Actias selene vandenberghi Roepke 1956 (stat. rev.), sowie zur geographischen Verbreitung dieser Taxa in Südostasien (Lepidoptera: Saturniidae)”, Entomologische Zeitschrift 109 (12): 484–491), the populations of the selene-group from Java and the other parts of Sundaland (Neomalaya) are not identical. The Javanese seitzi shows shorter prolongations of the juxta in the male genitalia than vandenberghi (and some other populations). The taxon vandenberghi was described from Sumatra and is therefore the correct name for the Sumatran selene-population; according to U. & L.H. Paukstadt, the status of the Peninsular Malaysian and Bornean populations may require further study." Nassig Commentary
In Sumatra this species shows a preference for elevations from 300-1500m, but it is scarce at those elevations and may be more common at higher elevation locales that have not been investigated.
The Sumatran populations are pale emerald green with a greyish to violet costa. Specimens are larger than nominate selene and have a more falcate forewing. ++++++++++++++++
Two images I have from Malaysia as selene vandenberghi show very yellowish am and pm and subterminal lines for the months of February and March. A third specimen, taken in May has darker greenish grey lines in May (all from same location) Perhaps that is a seasonal variation. A fourth image from Borneo, taken in July also has the darker grey-green lines, and it is my understanding that is Actias selene vandenberghi. If you post a good image here or send me a good image as a jpg email attachment, I will offer an opinion.
I believe the specimens from Jawa/Java are seitzi, and I believe that is still regarded as a valid subspecies of selene.
Perhaps when DNA barcoding results are published some of this will be sorted out, perhaps not.
Bill Oehlke
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Post by Khalid Fadil on Sept 24, 2011 15:37:37 GMT -8
Thanks for the info, Bill! I'll e-Mail you the photo.
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Post by wingedwishes on Sept 24, 2011 15:41:55 GMT -8
There is a valid point made by Nomi. A specimin without collection data has almost no scientific value. It has an artistic and personal value though. I suppose an undescribed species of Ornithoptera without collection data would have a value because it would let us all know it exists and you are the only one to have it. Scientific value or not, it makes you "feel" really good to know that only you have it....
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Post by lucanidae25 on Sept 25, 2011 16:38:09 GMT -8
I think every one is entitled to get pay with his/her time and labour during catching a specimen. Scientific value or no Scientific value. We all work and get pay accordingly to our time and labour, there is no different with specimens? One might says a specimen with scientific datas might worth more but I don't agree with a specimen with no datas would be worth nothing.
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Post by jackblack on Sept 26, 2011 3:07:19 GMT -8
Whats the point of owning a specimen with no data ? Useless . Like owning a painting someone said oh Picasso painted that but forgot to sign it , ho hum
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Post by lucanidae25 on Sept 26, 2011 4:34:09 GMT -8
My point is even a painting with out Picasso signing it would still worth something, might not be worth as much as with Picasso name on it but the time and labour that goes into painting it would still worth something, can't be nothing. Should be up to the individual to choose. I'm not saying all my specimens are with out datas but it should be about freedom of choices here. I feel there's nothing worng if some one choose not to have datas.
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