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Post by rayrard on Aug 22, 2018 14:44:33 GMT -8
I’m a bit lost on ssp that look identical but purportedly have differing DNA. I got convergent evolution. But something ain’t right here. These are cryptic species. Everyone knows the examples where species can look different but are very close genetically, and ones that look different and have very different DNA, but there are also many species that have little selection on morphology but underwent the same species-level genetic divergence over time as more recognizable species that evolved obvious morphological differences.
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Post by exoticimports on Aug 22, 2018 17:01:23 GMT -8
So an ancestor of machaon became polyxenes and then ssp asterius meanwhile the possibly same genetic founder machaon morphed into a duplicate of asterius. I know what dna science tells us but I get the feeling there is something we don’t know cause it sounds too fishy. It implies that asterius and joanae fit a very specific niche from which variation would be fatal.
We aren’t talking gars and gharials and needlefish here. Nor Mimicry. So if two divergent lines evolved to look identical not close but identical then why?
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leptraps
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Posts: 2,397
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Post by leptraps on Aug 22, 2018 17:11:07 GMT -8
We need a good collector with a butterfly garden in the LRGV. There are several. I will put a list together shortly. There is a guy in Laredo, Falcon Heights and Eagle Pass (?).
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Post by jshuey on Aug 23, 2018 7:34:16 GMT -8
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Post by exoticimports on Aug 24, 2018 6:47:26 GMT -8
Hmmm...it seems that joanae and I share similar evolution. I have physiolgical traits known to be derived from Neanderthal, so while I've not had my DNA checked it's clear that I am a cross between Neanderthal and Sapiens, closer to Sapiens. That means that "we" (yes, there are more of us) get to be a distinct species, which is quite a distinction (no pun intended) in today's world where we pretend humans are all one species, all one race, with no distinction. Chuck
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Post by papilio28570 on Aug 25, 2018 12:44:08 GMT -8
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Post by exoticimports on Aug 26, 2018 14:56:39 GMT -8
There are now fewer swallowtails in USA specifically Florida. Found one of those wonderful spots where they all congregate to feed. Got troilus marcellus cresphontes and philenor all in one quarter acre. Maynard I was there too but as usual I got skunked.
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Post by jshuey on Aug 29, 2018 12:37:08 GMT -8
So - if anyone is dying to own a pair of Papilio joanae - I have a pair that was reared by Richard Heitzman back in the 1980's that I would let go. Richard discovered and described the species - named it for his wife. He was very generous and sent me a few pairs back in the day. No one has claimed to have collected this bug in almost a decade - today it is either really rare or extinct.
PM me if you want to make a serious offer. Extensive samples of neotropical Hesperiidae (or Lycaenidae/Riodinidae) from interesting localities are my currencies of choice. Looking for non-typical collecting sites with great data. I am not looking for those "extras" that you may as well get rid of - I'm looking for real samples including all species - both common and uncommon.
Alternately, if you have reasonably large hands, a fist full of dollars would also work -- Because I know how to covert these uninteresting dollar-things into a currency that I care about...!
I can send a photo. As I recall - they are A1 quality with great data - being ex-larvae.
John
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Post by mothman27 on Sept 13, 2018 17:35:20 GMT -8
I recently got some new cases and rearranged my USA Papilionidae: Enjoy!
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Post by Paul K on Sept 14, 2018 13:55:15 GMT -8
Female of P.glaucus has beautiful blue hind wings. Is it natural or effect of the flash light.
Paul
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Post by mothman27 on Sept 14, 2018 14:31:02 GMT -8
Female of P.glaucus has beautiful blue hind wings. Is it natural or effect of the flash light. Paul Which one? Either way, both look the same in person.
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Post by Paul K on Sept 14, 2018 17:11:49 GMT -8
Female of P.glaucus has beautiful blue hind wings. Is it natural or effect of the flash light. Paul Which one? Either way, both look the same in person. Yes, both look so cool! I never saw one like that in Ontario. Is it different ssp.?
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Post by mothman27 on Sept 14, 2018 17:51:45 GMT -8
Which one? Either way, both look the same in person. Yes, both look so cool! I never saw one like that in Ontario. Is it different ssp.? The one in the case above is ssp. maynardi. The one in the lower case is ssp. glaucus that I collected as a chrysalis here in Indiana and hatched. I think it does have more blue than they typically do. It is stunning.
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