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Post by trehopr1 on Aug 20, 2018 11:05:11 GMT -8
That's exciting news mikeh ! A capture of P. caiguanabus from Florida would make that species #14 for the Eastern half of the US. Wow.... You never know what an errant storm or trade wind may blow into Florida .
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Post by mothman27 on Aug 20, 2018 11:49:25 GMT -8
Yes, I would be interested to see see a comparison of the largest cresphontes, maynardi and multicaudata. I know my male multicaudata is near the size of cresphontes. I would guess females are larger still.
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Aug 20, 2018 12:00:19 GMT -8
Who or where did that report come from or where did it originate? Most importantly, is there a reliable specimen.
If this is a sighting by some of South FLorida's bifocal ladies in Dade County (NABA) a good clear photograph would work. However, these people have seen some spectacular species. Some records of Neotropical Lep's are butterfly house escapees. Especially in Broward County.
When I get a few minutes I will post a report that was on Desert Lep's concerning someone who reported collecting Papilio joanae but did not!!
The Rev. David Fine (A personal friend of yours truly), is regularly in the Florida Keys collecting, surveying and studying the Lepidoptera. I have sent him an email with that report.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Aug 20, 2018 13:09:45 GMT -8
There is a photo and article (John Calhoun & Susan F. Kolterman, 2018) in News of the Lep. Soc. 60(2): 84-87. Male P. caiguanabus photographed 19.vi.2017, Key Largo.
Adam.
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Post by trehopr1 on Aug 20, 2018 13:51:40 GMT -8
So far we are up to 17 Western species of Papilionidae. If the report of P. caiguanabus pans out then we are at 14 Eastern species of Papilionidae.
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Aug 20, 2018 15:47:51 GMT -8
After reading Adam's post, I remembered reading the article on Papilio caiguanabus. It was a great find.
While living in south Florida, I made numerous trips to the Florida Keys. However, the loss of natural habitat is major factor in the decline of Lepidoptera populations. Of course Ariel spraying for Mosquito control does not help,either. And most area's of natural habitat are protected and a research permits are required to collect and in some circumstances even to enter the property/preserve.
I live in Kentucky now, the odds of finding a new USA butterfly record are thin to none. Now moths, that is another story.
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Post by rayrard on Aug 20, 2018 16:28:42 GMT -8
trehpr: A: See leptraps post... it is historical but could theoretically return B: Appalachiensis described in 2002... the hybrid species origin is described in Scriber, J. M., & Ording, G. J. (2005). Ecological speciation without host plant specialization; possible origins of a recently described cryptic Papilio species. Entomologia experimentalis et applicata, 115(1), 247-263. C: The "Old World Swallowtail" is widespread in the western U.S. along with zelicaon D: Yes E: "Papilio garamas abderus Hoppfer, 1856 was reported from south Texas by Bordelon & Knudson (2000)" F: Found in 2008 www.martinreid.com/Butterfly%20website/leps193.htmlG: Yes, but I'm not aware of more than that one Parides in the U.S. The one you posted in your post with the red and green spots I wasn't aware of records of. H: I think brevicaudata could be found in extreme northern Main
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Post by rayrard on Aug 20, 2018 16:35:58 GMT -8
So far we are up to 17 Western species of Papilionidae. If the report of P. caiguanabus pans out then we are at 14 Eastern species of Papilionidae. I know NABA is against collecting but they accept it done for scientific purposes. That being said is there some valid reason for them not collecting and vouchering specimens for all these new U.S. records for butterflies they find. They let them lsit for hours and even days getting pictures taken but no one seems to consider these records useful for a museum collection for when all the watchers die and their photos disappear? They aren't doing anyone a favor. We need a good collector with a butterfly garden in the LRGV.
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Post by trehopr1 on Aug 20, 2018 18:59:17 GMT -8
Thank you for your input rayray; including the updates regarding (Papilio garamas abderus) and (Mimoides phaon). That makes the species tally 19 now for the Western half of the US.
The Parides eurimedes species I mentioned is posted on the list of butterflies of Texas. The species name on Wikipedia will show Southern Texas as part of it's range. There must have been a few collected over the years there.
Western Native: multicaudata indra zelicaon rutulus eurymedon machaon
+1 New Native rumiko
+12 Strays. thoas ornythion pilumnus astyalus philolaus rogeri anchisiades victorinus garamas M. phaon Parides alopius Parides eurimedes
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Aug 20, 2018 22:30:13 GMT -8
How about Papilio machaon hudsonianus. It occurs in eastern Canada.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Aug 21, 2018 2:03:31 GMT -8
H: I think brevicaudata could be found in extreme northern Main The name is brevicauda not brevicaudata, and I did hear a rumour that it may be present in northern Maine. Adam.
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Post by Paul K on Aug 21, 2018 7:54:59 GMT -8
How about Papilio machaon hudsonianus. It occurs in eastern Canada. It only occurs in northern Ontario and Quebec near Hudson Bay I don’t think there will be any records from northern US.
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Post by eurytides on Aug 21, 2018 10:45:14 GMT -8
H: I think brevicaudata could be found in extreme northern Main The name is brevicauda not brevicaudata, and I did hear a rumour that it may be present in northern Maine. Adam. It is known from one location in Maine. First reported several years ago.
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Aug 22, 2018 6:59:14 GMT -8
When I get a few minutes I will post a report that was on Desert Lep's concerning someone who reported collecting Papilio joanae but did not!! Below is a post from Desert Leps. by Ken Davenport. Ken reported collecting Papilio joanae in Arkansas. He was not sure what he collected and the specmen match the description. To confirm, he sent the legs for DNA confirmation. Need I say anymore? Everyone: I shared records from my trip to Arkansas last June and reported I had collected 2 males and a female of Papilio joanae from Mt. Gaylor off Hwy. 71, Crawford County taken June 14 and 17.
I sent legs from the specimens to Julian Dupuis for DNA confirmation and it came back as P. polyxenes asterius for all three, despite the connected spots on the hindwings.
So sometimes it is a good idea to have butterflies of questionable ID checked and not rely solely on field marks. I noted many new purported records in Glassberg's new edition of the Swift Guide. In many case of those, especially in Urbanus and other tailed skippers or skippers in general, there are many species with similar markings. Photographs alone may not be reliable in establishing actual identity. How many field marks are seen in any one photo?
And with some difficult groups, even having specimens may not be enough to always ID. I have more butterflies I have caught this year (some from California) I will be sending to specialists for their input. We all know how difficult duskywings, metalmarks, Euphilotes blues, azures and fritillaries can be. Not to mention all that stuff from the lower Rio Grande.
Best Wishes, Ken Davenport kdavenport93306@yahoo.com or flutterflies93306@att.net _._,_._,_
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Post by exoticimports on Aug 22, 2018 14:24:15 GMT -8
I’m a bit lost on ssp that look identical but purportedly have differing DNA. I got convergent evolution. But something ain’t right here.
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