BL vs BLB (black light vs black light blue)

[garin33]

I know there are basically two kinds of uv black light fluorescent bulbs. BL (black light) and BLB (black light blue). The BLB has a coating that blocks most of the visible light and the bulbs look blue or black when not turned on. The Bl bulbs look white when not turned on.
The Bioquip black light bulb uses a BL bulb and I know this is very popular. I always thought the BL bulb was better for insect collecting, probably because that's what Bioquip sells. However, I was talking to a very experienced beetle collector the other day and he said he prefers the BLB bulbs so I'm now confused.

Does anyone know if there is any difference between the two when attracting insects? I noticed that Leptraps carries both, so maybe Leroy can chime in on the subject. I was wondering if any of you had practical experience in the field using both and noticed any difference.

Thank you for any information you could share on the subject.

Garin

[Deleted]

They each broadcast in different areas of the spectrum appealing to insects. I always use both together and then I'm "covered". My larger sheet set up has six four ft. fluorescent bulbs which I have vertically suspended alternating between bl and blb along with one or two 275 to 400 watt metal halide or mercury vapor lights. These particular lights (mv or mh) are between 7200 and 8100 kelvin. Thus, my unit sends out 240 watts of two kinds of blacklight with the big light in the range stated because insects are drawn to the far right of the spectrum. I get good moth and beetle results. My live bucket trap uses only a 25w bl bulb. To answer your question.....I've heard that one or the other does the trick depending on who I'm talking to, so I simply use both bl and blb. Btw.....I do also "cycle" my lights most nights.

[garin33]

Dec 17, 2015 15:35:37 GMT -8 billgarthe said:

They each broadcast in different areas of the spectrum appealing to insects. I always use both together and then I'm "covered". My larger sheet set up has six four ft. fluorescent bulbs which I have vertically suspended alternating between bl and blb along with one or two 275 to 400 watt metal halide or mercury vapor lights. These particular lights (mv or mh) are between 7200 and 8100 kelvin. Thus, my unit sends out 240 watts of two kinds of blacklight with the big light in the range stated because insects are drawn to the far right of the spectrum. I get good moth and beetle results. My live bucket trap uses only a 25w bl bulb. To answer your question.....I've heard that one or the other does the trick depending on who I'm talking to, so I simply use both bl and blb. Btw.....I do also "cycle" my lights most nights.

Thanks Bill, that's quite a setup you got going. Sounds like you got everything covered!
Have you noticed any difference in the two bulbs? example: one seems to draw certain things better than others.
Like you, I am planning to set up some bucket traps so will most likely only be able to use one type. I assume that if you use the BL for the bucket traps, you feel that maybe the BL is slightly overall more effective?
It sounds like your experience with talking to other collectors that they both basically do the job so probably not that big of a deal.
Thank you for your input.
Oh, I noticed that on your Arizona trip in 2012 that you were using a bunch of daylight CFL's for night collecting. Do you no longer do that and is there a reason? I was very curious when I read that because it's rare that you see collectors use CFL's. It's always MV, metal halide and black light tubes.

[Deleted]

Good questions.

Yes I used those cfls and with great success on that trip. I still carry a few for emergency backup, but have switched to mogul-based mh---plant max or mercury vapor as they put out more lumens than the cfls. I assure you that my sheets were full....I mean full...of bugs in AZ that year as well as in KY and TN. The plant max and Mercury vapor bulbs also throw more light in the preferred spectrum (around 7000 to 8000k) than the cfls. If I forgot to bring the mh or mv on a given trip, and only had the cfls, I'd manage just fine.

Regarding the differences, I've noticed little since I run the two (bl and blb) side by side. I read somewhere and/or was told by somebody that a single bl bulb for a bucket trap is highly effective for moths and that is my priority in most cases.

First pic is of my setup from last summer. My fall setup is different as I replaced the 2 two ft. Black lights horizontally set with six four ft. Vertical Bl and blb bulbs. The second pic is my 25w bl bulb live bucket trap.

[garin33]

Thanks so much for sharing the pictures. Very impressive setup! I can only imagine the amount of attraction you get with all those lights.
That's very good information regarding the CFL's. It's really good to know because CFL's with a regular socket is something that you can find and use anywhere. No need for a special ballast, mogul socket, a long tube that can easily break, etc. There are definitely some advantages to them and like you said, an excellent backup because you can buy them almost anywhere and they are very easy to pack and store. I have always thought about the black light CFL's because they take up so little space and you don't need a ballast. However, I have heard that they are not as effective as the long tubes. I have only used the Bioquip blacklight tubes which are only about 18 inches long but packing 4ft tubes just seems sort of scary and I would be more afraid of breaking it while setting up etc, especially since i have kids running around knocking stuff over. I do use a 400 watt metal halide lamp which does very well.
I like the U tube fluorescent bulbs that you are using on your bucket trap because they give off alot of light but yet are very short. Another collector on this site told me about the U tubes and I really like them.
Thanks again for sharing, really great info.

[Deleted]

Check out this link to the plant max mh bulb. Regular mh is good.....I've used them, but this is the one that I rely on. I think the reg. mh bulb is 4200k while the plant max mh is 7200k which is light further over to the right on the spectrum.
Many nights when I was too lazy or it was drizzling or raining, I'd use just this single bulb w no blacklights and I scored big.

Light in the 7000+ kelvin is the light that draws the most.....it is at the blue end of the spectrum which is the most desired as I see it and from what I've researched/read. Reading about kelvin, the spectrum, wavelengths, lumens, uv light, and what experts say about these is indeed helpful in all this different types of light talk.

Btw....those little CFL blacklight reg. socket bulbs are ok.....I've used them, but they really have limited attractive calling properties in the power area. I don't use them anymore.

Link to 400w plantmax mh bulb.........................https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/88183/PX-MS4007200.html
NOTE.....this bulb must have a special ballast to power it correctly.

There are some out there who would have different opinions....I'm merely sharing mine. My friend Tom made me aware of these plant max bulbs....I was not born knowing all.....if u know what I mean. My friend Evan got me into the metal halide arena in 2013. So I, too, owe gratitude to fellow collectors who've helped me.

Clear mv are also very good and throw out good wavelengths of light at 6700k.
Link to clear mv 250w bulb.................................https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/1103/MV0250-0002.html
NOTE.......if you have the proper ballast for the 400w mh bulb, it will also satisfy the needs of the 250w mv bulb. Both are mogul bases.

Not meant as a sales pitch, but......I am very pleased with 1000bulbs.com for quality, price, selection, service, and promptness.

[garin33]

Thanks Bill, great information! Yes, Evan is awesome, he has also helped me put together a MH setup and a black light bucket using the U tubes with the G10q base.
On the plantmax MH bulb, you mention that it needs a special ballast to power it properly? What kind of ballast do you need? I am just using a regular 400 watt metal halide ballast that comes from a warehouse. Do you need a digital ballast? Like those digital HPS ballasts that plant guys use?
You mention the 250 watt MV bulb and how it can be run by a 400 watt MH ballast. Is there a reason why you would want to use a 250 watt mv bulb vs a 400 watt mv bulb?
Yes, I have bought from 1000 bulbs before and they have really good prices and service.
Thanks again for the info, it's really interesting about the effectiveness of the 400 watt plantmax bulb, I didn't realize it would make a difference. I figured the 400 watt bulbs were all about the same.

[Deleted]

Garin,

No, the ballast u have for a reg. MH 400w will work w the Plantmax. I can change bulbs with the same ballast. 400w is the maximum wattage I use, but sometimes the mv does quite well. Now, others will differ, but sometimes having 400 or more can cause bugs to land far away from your light and even with patrolling, many get missed. This is a big reason why cycling is critical. As I'm sure u know Evan uses a 1000w bulb and he does great. Find out what works for u and go from there. Let me know if u get extras of stuff and let me know what extras I get u might want. I collect for others quite often as does Evan.

[garin33]

Thanks Bill,

I understand and it definitely makes sense. I do cycle my lights because Evan and others have told me about how it will draw in the insects that land too far away. Thanks again for the helpful info, it's always great to hear from experienced collectors who share their ideas. I never knew you could use a 250 watt bulb with a 400 watt ballast. I always thought it had to match, so that's good to know. I can see how sometimes you would want to use less power especially if you are not running it off a generator and are using a car battery, etc.
I just went rain beetle collecting last weekend with a guy who has been doing it for over 30 years. He set up 10 bucket traps with black lights and regular white fluorescent lights and collected about 50. It was amazing to watch him in action. He had it down to a science. It was my first time rain beetle collecting so it felt so strange to be out in the freezing rain in December about 10 miles from a main freeway collecting these cool looking beetles.
I'll be sure to let you know about extras I get. PM me and let me know what you are looking for. I really only collect in California and Arizona.

[joee30]

Ah, good ole Pleocoma. I miss collecting them. I have gone with a good friend and frozen my butt off in the San Gabriel Mts. looking for them many a time. Found some really good spots for P. linsleyi and P. badia hirsuta.

[joee30]

That was many years before going to the military. Now, I'm in Reno, NV and the Pleocoma fauna is a lot different, especially since they are west of where I'm at. Lol

[vabrou]

Link to my 1992 publication concerning this subject. Note that compared to the BLB lamp, a BL lamp emits 25% more relative blacklight energy.

www.lsuinsects.org/people/vernonbrou/pdf/1992.%2017.%20Plain%20talk%20for%20entomologist%20about%20ultraviolet%20lig.pdf

[boghaunter1]

Re: Collecting lights

Years ago as a teenager I built my own pail traps (vanes & funnel of tin) using ordinary household incandescent 60 or 100w clear or coated bulbs... about 60% of my collection of 450+ moth sp. collected in my home yd. were collected in these simple traps. I next tried the 18" BLB poster/disco bulbs (makes white clothes glow)... & I had absolutely no luck with these... they are made for fluorescent minerals & collecting scorpions. The main 3 traps I use now are mostly BL tubes 18 - 24" with a single large separate 250w MV trap. I have always found that in my temperate region BL tubes work the best... I also have a permanent sheet setup with three 4 ft. BL tubes & another permanent setup with two - 250w M.V. bulbs. Those "Quantum" BL tubes sold by Leroy are, by far, IMHO, the best lights I have ever used to collect at night. Lugging 4 ft. BL tubes out to remote collecting locations by quad (or overseas)is out of the question. M.V.'s are good to attract from afar & do attract some different spp. than BL tubes & are nice to see what you are actually doing/tripping over. A lifetime collector friend of mine collected at more than 200 locations in every part of Saskatchewan & I was shocked when I saw his light setup... he used a tiny tin vane & funnel BL trap with those miniature 4" BL tubes sold by BioQuip! He collected more moth spp. new to SK than anyone ever will again.

So what is the story on MH vs, MV bulbs/lights? All kinds of confusing info in these forums over the yrs. Some say new MH bulbs are useless compared to MV... others say they are equal to or better than MVs. Never tried a MH...different ballasts needed?

To beginning collectors... some collectors are very ambitious & build & lug around huge, cumbersome generators & construct enormous X-mas tree like light displays that are impressive to see & may work very well (for them), but are not absolutely necessary (overkill) to have a good collecting experience. Imagine collecting on foot all day in the hot sun, day after day, & then spending each evening setting up elaborate light setups (& then taking it all down yet again if moving & staying up all night to boot)! A simple 2 ft. Quantum or 18" BioQuip black light, a sheet & rope, & an ordinary automotive battery work wonderfully.... weather is the limiting factor... moonless, cloudy, warm humid nights draw in multitudes of insects. I do occasionally  lug around a small 650w Honda generator & heavy cords to run an old 400w MV light, but do so less & less as I grow older.... PLEASE NOTE... MY PERSONAL THOUGHTS ONLY... each to his own... insect collectors are like photographers (most insect guys are both) & delight in dreaming up or buying/building all kinds of gadgets to make the perfect collecting/photography setup... haha...I just gotta smile & shake my head at some of complicated light setups... fortunately collecting/photographing insects can be as simple or as complicated as each wants to make it... with a lot of success all around.

John K.

[Deleted]

John,

Your comments are indeed true.......simple is good and all. If you are referring to my pic above, I just wanted to say that I used to use more simple materials, but the wind knocked too many down breaking bulbs and the like, so I found a set up which withstands the wind pretty darn well. Also, this is one of those collapsable awning sets that I can put up in less than two minutes. I can also set this up virtually anywhere with or without trees. Some of my best spots through the years have not had a tree any where to tie a rope. I'm just saying this so all realize that pragmatics prevail with my set up. My "X-mas tree like" rig is completely practical and I do use a 1000w Honda generator. Lastly, if it should rain and I want some protection, I can put the actual awning tarp on the top and not get soaked, for mild rains are good for collecting and I prefer to keep my electrical equipment as dry as possible. I realize those were your personal thoughts and I take no offense, but I did want to illustrate the main reasons my set up looks as it does.

[garin33]

Dec 19, 2015 9:30:08 GMT -8 vabrou said:

Link to my 1992 publication concerning this subject. Note that compared to the BLB lamp, a BL lamp emits 25% more relative blacklight energy.

www.lsuinsects.org/people/vernonbrou/pdf/1992.%2017.%20Plain%20talk%20for%20entomologist%20about%20ultraviolet%20lig.pdf

Wow, great scientific information on insect lighting. Very impressive, thanks so much for sharing that with us.

Do you mind saying what your current setup is?

Thanks.