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Post by garin33 on Dec 19, 2015 16:27:44 GMT -8
Re: Collecting lights
Years ago as a teenager I built my own pail traps (vanes & funnel of tin) using ordinary household incandescent 60 or 100w clear or coated bulbs... about 60% of my collection of 450+ moth sp. collected in my home yd. were collected in these simple traps. I next tried the 18" BLB poster/disco bulbs (makes white clothes glow)... & I had absolutely no luck with these... they are made for fluorescent minerals & collecting scorpions. The main 3 traps I use now are mostly BL tubes 18 - 24" with a single large separate 250w MV trap. I have always found that in my temperate region BL tubes work the best... I also have a permanent sheet setup with three 4 ft. BL tubes & another permanent setup with two - 250w M.V. bulbs. Those "Quantum" BL tubes sold by Leroy are, by far, IMHO, the best lights I have ever used to collect at night. Lugging 4 ft. BL tubes out to remote collecting locations by quad (or overseas)is out of the question. M.V.'s are good to attract from afar & do attract some different spp. than BL tubes & are nice to see what you are actually doing/tripping over. A lifetime collector friend of mine collected at more than 200 locations in every part of Saskatchewan & I was shocked when I saw his light setup... he used a tiny tin vane & funnel BL trap with those miniature 4" BL tubes sold by BioQuip! He collected more moth spp. new to SK than anyone ever will again.
So what is the story on MH vs, MV bulbs/lights? All kinds of confusing info in these forums over the yrs. Some say new MH bulbs are useless compared to MV... others say they are equal to or better than MVs. Never tried a MH...different ballasts needed?
To beginning collectors... some collectors are very ambitious & build & lug around huge, cumbersome generators & construct enormous X-mas tree like light displays that are impressive to see & may work very well (for them), but are not absolutely necessary (overkill) to have a good collecting experience. Imagine collecting on foot all day in the hot sun, day after day, & then spending each evening setting up elaborate light setups (& then taking it all down yet again if moving & staying up all night to boot)! A simple 2 ft. Quantum or 18" BioQuip black light, a sheet & rope, & an ordinary automotive battery work wonderfully.... weather is the limiting factor... moonless, cloudy, warm humid nights draw in multitudes of insects. I do occasionally lug around a small 650w Honda generator & heavy cords to run an old 400w MV light, but do so less & less as I grow older.... PLEASE NOTE... MY PERSONAL THOUGHTS ONLY... each to his own... insect collectors are like photographers (most insect guys are both) & delight in dreaming up or buying/building all kinds of gadgets to make the perfect collecting/photography setup... haha...I just gotta smile & shake my head at some of complicated light setups... fortunately collecting/photographing insects can be as simple or as complicated as each wants to make it... with a lot of success all around.
John K. Hi John, Thanks for sharing, more great information. I love to hear all the different opinions and experiences of collectors that have way more experience than me. I find all the practical experiences as well the scientific information fascinating. I guess I'm somewhat of a nerd so I love to hear all the elaborate systems that collectors use as well as the simple systems that collectors have found effective. Like you said, in the end each person decides on what works best for them in a practical sense. I found it interesting that on Chris Ginter's website he mentions that he has found that bucket traps without vanes, work just as well as bucket traps with vanes. I know that Bioquip and most others feel like vanes are very important so it's interesting to hear that. I'm looking forward to experimenting a bit myself. It does appear so far that there is no one that is saying that BLB is better than BL. Sounds more like Bl is better or at least equal to BLB. But I would be interested to hear from anyone that feels that BLB is better than BL in their experience or maybe they are collecting a particular species, etc. Thanks!
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Post by vabrou on Dec 19, 2015 19:47:54 GMT -8
I see a lot of incorrect information being posted about light trapping here by various persons. The main reason why people are posting this misinformation is that almost no one has researched this matter nor obtained the published research available from the past 150 or so years. Light trapping with BL fluorescent tubes began by the US agricultural dept. back in the 1920s for insect control on crops, --it was deemed a failure for the intended application back then. The USDA continued experimentation with all sorts of lamps, bulbs, tubes of all types into the 50s-60s and published results of these in scientific journals. Some noteworthy authors were Perry Glick published research of types of lamps, wattages of lamps and which resulted in the best outcomes for attracting insects and which families of insects, and also S.W. Frost in the 1950's developed the Pennsylvania light trap and published about his findings. Lots of other authors and researcher experimented with trap operating at different heights above ground, and with which color work best on light traps, and vanes (Baffles) vs no baffles, or how many baffles, and so on. I did the research and collected hundreds of these publications especially throughout the 1900s, and used this information to design my light traps beginning in 1969. If you want to know what works best, you can listen to some wanna-be expurt give you his unsubstantiated opinion, or you can read the plethora of scientific publications available and see what works and what doesn't work. I found a lot of such helpful information back in the late 60s-70s in such publications as the Jour. Entom. Soc., and don't forget the same research from other countries as well. By the way, the same ballast for MV lamps work for MH lamps, but one has to obtain the correct model ballast to match the wattage output. Here is a link illustrating just a few of the more than 400 light traps I have designed, fabricated, and operated over the past 46 years here in Louisiana. www.academia.edu/9665262/Images_of_some_of_the_insect_traps_designed_fabricated_and_operated_byI have continually operated uninterrupted, except for 30 days due to Hurricane Katrina, a series of light traps at my home property since 1969. On the pasted link, the 7 light traps I have operated for decades and are operating presently are illustrated and marked as Light traps #1 through Light trap #7. I also operate numerous other types insect traps as illustrated on the pdf link. I have posted lots of assorted photos of insect traps on my Facebook page www.facebook.com/Eudocima and hundreds of photos at this link www.facebook.com/Eudocima/media_set?set=a.121723754613039.21082.100003262452539&type=3I only designed two traps with a cover over my lamps, a cover is not needed and lamps are rarely ever damaged by rain or hail or other causes. In fact use of a cover significantly and often greatly diminishes the volume of insects captured.
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Post by beetlehorn on Dec 20, 2015 11:51:21 GMT -8
I have used many different types of light in various combinations over the years. I stumbled upon the Plantmax bulbs by accident a few years ago and it wasn't long before I started using them on every set I collected at. I told Bill G. about them and so far all I can say is that they outperform any other type of bulb, (mercury vapor, multi vapor, or regular metal halide) period! The light they emit is rather different than conventional bulbs in that they actually emit a sky blue hue quality. Any time I target a specific species in a given area, I use this bulb. As far as I can tell from actual field observations, insects are drawn much closer, and also from farther away. There are many specimens we never see because they tend to land on adjacent tree branches, or other types of cover. For myself, I have noticed more insects at my sheet, and that is because they aren't "hanging up" on some distant tree trunk as far as I can tell. I still use other bulbs in conjunction at times, and fluorescent tubes as well, because I cycle my light setup. After two or three hours of using a 250 or 400 watt bulb I turn off the big lights and just let the 25 and 40 watt tubes bring in any close hanging bugs. Then I either quit for the night or continue on cycling every two hours or so. As a testimony to these bulbs, just here in my home state of Tennessee, I have collected some 50 species of Catocala, (of the 80 or so known species nationwide). It is a fact that different groups of insects are attracted to different intensities and wavelengths of light, so I use a combination, as do many experienced collectors like Bill Garthe, and others. I often use this setup when I have students from schools and universities attend night collecting forays.
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Post by garin33 on Dec 20, 2015 16:45:11 GMT -8
Thank you Tom (and Bill) for sharing that information. It's always exciting to find these little nuggets when you are collecting and trying different things. It's like when you find that special collecting spot that is just a little better than the others you have tried. I'm looking forward to trying it.
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Post by garin33 on Dec 20, 2015 16:52:58 GMT -8
I see a lot of incorrect information being posted about light trapping here by various persons. The main reason why people are posting this misinformation is that almost no one has researched this matter nor obtained the published research available from the past 150 or so years. Light trapping with BL fluorescent tubes began by the US agricultural dept. back in the 1920s for insect control on crops, --it was deemed a failure for the intended application back then. The USDA continued experimentation with all sorts of lamps, bulbs, tubes of all types into the 50s-60s and published results of these in scientific journals. Some noteworthy authors were Perry Glick published research of types of lamps, wattages of lamps and which resulted in the best outcomes for attracting insects and which families of insects, and also S.W. Frost in the 1950's developed the Pennsylvania light trap and published about his findings. Lots of other authors and researcher experimented with trap operating at different heights above ground, and with which color work best on light traps, and vanes (Baffles) vs no baffles, or how many baffles, and so on. I did the research and collected hundreds of these publications especially throughout the 1900s, and used this information to design my light traps beginning in 1969. If you want to know what works best, you can listen to some wanna-be expurt give you his unsubstantiated opinion, or you can read the plethora of scientific publications available and see what works and what doesn't work. I found a lot of such helpful information back in the late 60s-70s in such publications as the Jour. Entom. Soc., and don't forget the same research from other countries as well. By the way, the same ballast for MV lamps work for MH lamps, but one has to obtain the correct model ballast to match the wattage output. Here is a link illustrating just a few of the more than 400 light traps I have designed, fabricated, and operated over the past 46 years here in Louisiana. www.academia.edu/9665262/Images_of_some_of_the_insect_traps_designed_fabricated_and_operated_byI have continually operated uninterrupted, except for 30 days due to Hurricane Katrina, a series of light traps at my home property since 1969. On the pasted link, the 7 light traps I have operated for decades and are operating presently are illustrated and marked as Light traps #1 through Light trap #7. I also operate numerous other types insect traps as illustrated on the pdf link. I have posted lots of assorted photos of insect traps on my Facebook page www.facebook.com/Eudocima and hundreds of photos at this link www.facebook.com/Eudocima/media_set?set=a.121723754613039.21082.100003262452539&type=3I only designed two traps with a cover over my lamps, a cover is not needed and lamps are rarely ever damaged by rain or hail or other causes. In fact use of a cover significantly and often greatly diminishes the volume of insects captured. All I can say is "wow"!! That is amazing. That is a lot of traps! I notice that you use 175 watt, 250 watt and 400 watt MV lights on most of your setups. Besides saving energy and battery power, is there any benefit to using a 175 watt or 250 watt vs a 400 watt? Thanks Vernon for sharing that amazing display of light traps. Garin
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Post by vabrou on Dec 20, 2015 17:44:55 GMT -8
Garin,
The result of using a larger wattage lamp(s) is a larger quantity of attracted specimens. Use just a 15 watt BL and you get just 15 watt results (lots of micros and smaller insects) Want to attract 1000 Catocala on a single night with one trap, or hundreds of sphingidae on a single night or thousands of saturnids on a single night, use much higher wattage, e.g. 1000 watts. Most all of my traps are a combination of MV and fluorescent BLs, and others. Though I have experimented with more than 100 different brands and models of lamps, bulbs, and tubes of wattages up to 1000 watt. I have run single traps on occasion with up to 3000 watts of light.
You asked about the fluorescent lamps BL vs BLB. The BLB lamp emits about 25% less uv rays than the BL lamp according to the manufactures literature. If you want to know about how much UV rays and what percentage of different wavelengths on any particular lamp, one must obtain the spectral distribution curve for each manufacturers products and models. The same lamp identification by 3 different manufacturers will result in 3 different sets of results.
Research on all these various topics is out there. One just has to search for it.
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Dec 21, 2015 17:48:31 GMT -8
I have been at this a while. I understand how both Fluorescent, Mercury Vapor and Metal Halide bulbs work. I know what the design is and how the ballast work. There are two different ballast for Fluorescent and three for Mercury Vapor and only two for metal halide. I understand how and what the coatings are on all light bulbs. I have posted all this information previously.
There are many who post on Insectnet who evidently know a lot more than me. I normally refrain from responding to these threads as I can find better things to write about.
First, if you have a 250 Watt Mercury Vapor bulb and a 400 Watt rated Magnetic Ballast, it will operated a 250 Watt MV bulb. However, two three things can happen and only one is good. The Bad: The bulb will operate until the ignition chamber over heats and the burns out the chamber, or, the chamber overheats and goes "BANG" and the bulb will explode. The Good: The Bulb does not operate. Use the correct ballast for the Bulb in hand. You have nothing to loose. If you mix small watt bulbs with larger watt Ballast, you could loose your sight.
BL: Black Light UV Coated white; The NM range from 350 to 368. The higher the NM the better. However, should the NM exceed 370 the UV band changes to Red and will only attract a few Mosquitos.
BLB: Black Light Black (Dark) Coated Dark Purple; The NM Range is 372 to 384. There are only two BLB Bulbs produced. 372NM and 375NM. BLB will attract a wider range of moths in the spring. However, if you want Sphingids or larger moths and Catocala, use MV.
The availability of Mercury Vapor Bulbs is nearing an end. The replacement MV Bulbs sold today are actually Metal Halide Hybrids. They produce little UV.
I design and manufacturing Light Equipment. If you have the knowledge, time and money, you can made some great equipment. Vernon Brou is proof of that.
I use my own products. I am an amateur Lepidopterists not a professional. I maintain a collections of Butterflies and moths. Most Butterflies are collected with a net. Most moths with traps. I can manage what I collect with the help of some freezers. I manage to prepare 1500 to 3000 specimens per year. I enjoy other activities, I like to Fish, especially with a Fly Rod. I am a Steam Locomotive enthusiasts and my wife and I enjoy riding trains,. Since I retired in 2009, we take two or three train rides per year. If all I did was work on Lepidoptera, I would grow a long beard and look awful ugly.
Enough said, I think its past my bed time!
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Post by vabrou on Dec 21, 2015 21:00:32 GMT -8
Leroy said "If all I did was work on Lepidoptera, I would grow a long beard and look awful ugly". Leroy , I resemble those remarks !! I did shave it off finally, realized that ZZ TOP wasn't going to launch their comeback "NURSING HOME TOUR" images 2005 and 2015, retirement has not treated me kindly.
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Post by garin33 on Dec 22, 2015 10:31:53 GMT -8
I have been at this a while. I understand how both Fluorescent, Mercury Vapor and Metal Halide bulbs work. I know what the design is and how the ballast work. There are two different ballast for Fluorescent and three for Mercury Vapor and only two for metal halide. I understand how and what the coatings are on all light bulbs. I have posted all this information previously. There are many who post on Insectnet who evidently know a lot more than me. I normally refrain from responding to these threads as I can find better things to write about. First, if you have a 250 Watt Mercury Vapor bulb and a 400 Watt rated Magnetic Ballast, it will operated a 250 Watt MV bulb. However, two three things can happen and only one is good. The Bad: The bulb will operate until the ignition chamber over heats and the burns out the chamber, or, the chamber overheats and goes "BANG" and the bulb will explode. The Good: The Bulb does not operate. Use the correct ballast for the Bulb in hand. You have nothing to loose. If you mix small watt bulbs with larger watt Ballast, you could loose your sight. BL: Black Light UV Coated white; The NM range from 350 to 368. The higher the NM the better. However, should the NM exceed 370 the UV band changes to Red and will only attract a few Mosquitos. BLB: Black Light Black (Dark) Coated Dark Purple; The NM Range is 372 to 384. There are only two BLB Bulbs produced. 372NM and 375NM. BLB will attract a wider range of moths in the spring. However, if you want Sphingids or larger moths and Catocala, use MV. The availability of Mercury Vapor Bulbs is nearing an end. The replacement MV Bulbs sold today are actually Metal Halide Hybrids. They produce little UV. I design and manufacturing Light Equipment. If you have the knowledge, time and money, you can made some great equipment. Vernon Brou is proof of that. I use my own products. I am an amateur Lepidopterists not a professional. I maintain a collections of Butterflies and moths. Most Butterflies are collected with a net. Most moths with traps. I can manage what I collect with the help of some freezers. I manage to prepare 1500 to 3000 specimens per year. I enjoy other activities, I like to Fish, especially with a Fly Rod. I am a Steam Locomotive enthusiasts and my wife and I enjoy riding trains,. Since I retired in 2009, we take two or three train rides per year. If all I did was work on Lepidoptera, I would grow a long beard and look awful ugly. Enough said, I think its past my bed time! Hi Leroy, Thank you for sharing. I have read many of your posts on lighting as well as your website. I appreciate all the information you have written. Sometimes I'm a bit dense so just wanted to make sure I am understanding you correctly. You said that BLB bulbs are better for collecting a wide range of moths in the spring but MV is better for larger moths. Are you saying that BLB bulbs are better than BL bulbs in the spring for collecting a wider range of moths? I know you don't collect beetles but I'm sure you sell your equipment to beetle collectors as well. Have you found any advantages for BLB vs BL in beetle collecting? Thank you for the safety tip in regards to using a 400 watt ballast with a 250 watt bulb. Thanks
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Dec 22, 2015 13:14:11 GMT -8
BL bulbs are good year round. However, BLB for some unexplained reason, BLB will attracted some species in the spring that a BL will not, especially Geometredia.
I also like to use BLB on mountain tops in Colorado, Wyoming and anywhere above the tree line. I found several moths that no one can identify (Yet).
Unfortunately, BLB bulbs are only produced by a speciality bulb company in Canada for Phillips Lighting and will get expensive in the near future.
Shaped BL bulbs (circular, "U"shaped and Twisted) produce UV bands that are emmitted in every direction which distorts the bands. This reduces the effect of the UV light and limits the attraction to insects. Straight flourescent tubes emmit the light straight out from the bulb with minimal distortions.
The low temperature will be 59 degrees in central Kentucky. I am on my way to set out lights traps. Results tomorrow.
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Post by garin33 on Dec 22, 2015 17:34:20 GMT -8
BL bulbs are good year round. However, BLB for some unexplained reason, BLB will attracted some species in the spring that a BL will not, especially Geometredia. I also like to use BLB on mountain tops in Colorado, Wyoming and anywhere above the tree line. I found several moths that no one can identify (Yet). Unfortunately, BLB bulbs are only produced by a speciality bulb company in Canada for Phillips Lighting and will get expensive in the near future. Shaped BL bulbs (circular, "U"shaped and Twisted) produce UV bands that are emmitted in every direction which distorts the bands. This reduces the effect of the UV light and limits the attraction to insects. Straight flourescent tubes emmit the light straight out from the bulb with minimal distortions. The low temperature will be 59 degrees in central Kentucky. I am on my way to set out lights traps. Results tomorrow. Interesting regarding BLB. It's also interesting regarding the U shaped and circular BL bulbs. I know that Bioquip sells light traps with circular and U shaped bulbs. Good luck tonight!
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Jan 1, 2016 18:07:29 GMT -8
we have had the second warmest December in Kentucky since the 1890's. December 22 high temp was 71 degrees, I set out two light traps about an hour east of my home. The following morning I had several dozen moths including Feralia major. This were solid black and the earlest I have ever collected them. Wait a minute, this is the latest because it is still 2015. But it is the earliest for this Seaso, whenever that is.
I had several dozen Lithophane and three different species of Metaxaglaea. Not a bad haul
I set them out again on the December 23 with high hopes. I only had 16 moths and nothing new.
I was putting the traps in my vehicle on December 24 when my wife announced something about my need for a Pine Box if I set those traps out.
It was fun while it lasted. My wife has no sense of Humor.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2016 19:27:08 GMT -8
My wife has no sense of Humor. Do any of them??
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Post by beetlehorn on Jan 9, 2016 7:57:40 GMT -8
I will have to say that my wife, who is also an insectnet member, is not only tolerant of my activity, but she also participates. I have a setup that is next to my house where I collect all season long, and she never fails to help inspect all the insects that come to my lights. Here is a photo of one BL, BLB and daylight fluorescent combos after I have cycled the bigger 400 Watt lights off. Usually both sides of the sheet get covered, and you have to watch where you step because the ground also has many insects that were attracted to the lights. Tom
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Post by garin33 on Jan 9, 2016 22:23:24 GMT -8
I will have to say that my wife, who is also an insectnet member, is not only tolerant of my activity, but she also participates. I have a setup that is next to my house where I collect all season long, and she never fails to help inspect all the insects that come to my lights. Here is a photo of one BL, BLB and daylight fluorescent combos after I have cycled the bigger 400 Watt lights off. Usually both sides of the sheet get covered, and you have to watch where you step because the ground also has many insects that were attracted to the lights. Tom View AttachmentLooks like a great setup Tom. I know these things are difficult to tell but have you tried or noticed any difference between using the BL, BLB and daylight bulbs? ie: Maybe you have tried only using one of them and have seen a difference? Thanks. Garin
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