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Post by exoticimports on Feb 28, 2021 19:21:41 GMT -8
Paul, yes they occur in ON. Check the records at Ontario Moth Atlas. Both angulifera and Promethea occur on the south side of the lake. However, the first angulifera I found was perhaps 15 years ago. Since then I have captured several more. Meanwhile, Promethea, which used to be a nuisance, has decreased markedly.
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Post by eurytides on Feb 28, 2021 22:04:22 GMT -8
Paul, yes they occur in ON. Check the records at Ontario Moth Atlas. Both angulifera and Promethea occur on the south side of the lake. However, the first angulifera I found was perhaps 15 years ago. Since then I have captured several more. Meanwhile, Promethea, which used to be a nuisance, has decreased markedly. In Kingston, promethea cocoons are common. I see them every winter, sometimes while driving.
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Post by trehopr1 on Mar 1, 2021 14:10:10 GMT -8
Dang, some guys have all the luck finding "good" cocoons.
For all the stinking bagworm cocoons that I ever see hanging on trees each year; I think my grandmother could knit me a prickly poncho by the end of every season...
I'd probably have 10 or 12 ponchos by now.
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Post by exoticimports on Mar 1, 2021 14:41:17 GMT -8
This is the first winter I don’t have Promethea hanging in the back yard. Probably because I cleared out the scrub trees they liked so much. I’ve found multiple Promethea on food plant trees less than a meter tall.
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Post by Paul K on Mar 1, 2021 16:27:03 GMT -8
I found about 30 Promethea cocoons this winter on small lilac bushes about 1-2m tall. Unfortunately only one was alive and male already emerged.
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Post by trehopr1 on Mar 1, 2021 17:59:39 GMT -8
I have always heard that Saturniidae have atrocious results in nature as to how many larvae actually make it to adult.
Many species may lay somewhere between 200-400 eggs and end results are less than 20 (?) adults.
Despite these awful numbers most are still with us every year; although, I believe Samia cynthia HAS in these last 10 or more years suffered a steep decline and MAY be very seldom seen now in the wild.
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Post by livingplanet3 on Mar 1, 2021 18:38:27 GMT -8
Speaking of Samia cynthia, do wild populations of this species even exist in the United States anymore? When was the last time a sighting was made? This species became naturalized in some parts of the eastern US following its introduction in the late 1800s as part of a domestic silk production plan that ultimately failed, but it's been many years since I've heard of anyone seeing one of these moths (outside of captive breeding) in this country. In contrast - its host plant, Ailanthus, has spread from coast to coast and can be found in all but the coldest parts of the country.
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Post by trehopr1 on Mar 1, 2021 20:20:37 GMT -8
This lovely moth species is indeed an enigma of sorts... I can remember back in the late seventies and early 80s the butterfly company of Far Rockaway New York was selling Cynthia cocoons. I attempted to purchase some cocoons on two occasions however they were out of stock both times. I would wager that someone was likely collecting up the cocoons locally and selling them to the butterfly company in small batches as they found them.
It is a funny thing that down in Florida during the mid 80s (after hurricane Andrew) the Gainesville folks set up a lab and a breeding program to salvage what was left of the Schaus swallowtail. And they were very successful in a few short years in reestablishing it on the two Keys that it was known from.
Yet here we have a lovely large species of moth which was purposefully introduced in the mid 1800s and which survived and even "thrived" in an urban setting such as New York, New Jersey, Boston region etc.; Feeding off of a weedy tree species that no one could care less about. It survived there for probably 120 years but, now since the 1980s something has taken a great toll on it and no researchers seem to give a hoot that it has basically faded away nearly.
Seems like purposefully introduced things just don't rate the same interest or attention that native things do.
I can only imagine that the two things at work which have seemingly decimated its numbers are either herbicide use in an urban environment or some sort of biological control meant for some other species but, one which has also found the larvae of Cynthia attractive. Maybe a combination of both.
Still, it's weedy tree food source is still in abundance out there and yet no reports of any moths...
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mikeh
Full Member
Posts: 207
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Post by mikeh on Mar 1, 2021 20:33:21 GMT -8
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Post by trehopr1 on Mar 1, 2021 21:10:23 GMT -8
Thank you Mikeh for that link.
It seems the most recent verified sighting was October 2018. The previous was July 2015.
So it's good to know that somehow it still maintains a "toe-hold" of some sort in New Jersey.
It is a genuine "pity" that such a large and lovely species is probably now the most the most elusive of Saturniid species to encounter on the Eastern seaboard.
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Post by trehopr1 on Mar 1, 2021 22:08:06 GMT -8
Does anyone have any specimen pictures of S. cynthia to share with us ?
If so, were they captive bred or wild collected ?
Please, no S. cynthia ricini as these are sold by sellers on Ebay and are not true nominate.
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Post by exoticimports on Mar 2, 2021 3:27:38 GMT -8
Check LepSoc, there was a publication on Cynthia within the last six months. Apparently it still exists in NJ albeit in a limited locality.
In 1980s I raised Cynthia from NJ stock. Not as impressive as cecropia.
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Mar 2, 2021 3:39:02 GMT -8
I grew up on the far East side of Cleveland, Ohio. At the south end of the street where I lived where the Collindwood Yards of the New York Central R.R. The yards were enormous. There was an access/security road, unpaved, that bordered each side of the rail road tracks. Susposedly, Samia cynthia could be found in the Ailanthus trees that grew between the gravel road and the Rail Road Tracks. Never found one. I acquired a dozen cocoons from an add in the "News of the Lepidopterists Society" in the late 1960's. I have eleven (11) specimens of Samia cynthia in my collection from those cocoons.
I have never found cocoons anywhere.
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Post by kevinkk on Mar 2, 2021 19:34:47 GMT -8
This lovely moth species is indeed an enigma of sorts... I can remember back in the late seventies and early 80s the butterfly company of Far Rockaway New York was selling Cynthia cocoons. I attempted to purchase some cocoons on two occasions however they were out of stock both times. I would wager that someone was likely collecting up the cocoons locally and selling them to the butterfly company in small batches as they found them. It is a funny thing that down in Florida during the mid 80s (after hurricane Andrew) the Gainesville folks set up a lab and a breeding program to salvage what was left of the Schaus swallowtail. And they were very successful in a few short years in reestablishing it on the two Keys that it was known from. Yet here we have a lovely large species of moth which was purposefully introduced in the mid 1800s and which survived and even "thrived" in an urban setting such as New York, New Jersey, Boston region etc.; Feeding off of a weedy tree species that no one could care less about. It survived there for probably 120 years but, now since the 1980s something has taken a great toll on it and no researchers seem to give a hoot that it has basically faded away That's a great picture of cynthia, I remember The Butterfly Company...Glanz fluid, and more. Sounds almost like a good argument for easing restrictions on importing livestock for us USA breeders.
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Post by eurytides on Mar 2, 2021 20:43:08 GMT -8
As pointed out above, cynthia moths were sighted in NJ recently. However, I think they are swirling the drain so to speak. A friend of mine went to the area described in the article and could not locate any cocoons after a day of searching.
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