Pest in the drawer !!!!

[Paul K]

I found these larvae (2) in my drawer of newly spread specimens.
I suppose that they were infested while drying on the boards.
I kept them this time too long ( over a month ).
The question is why square of fresh vapona did not kill it once placed in the drawer?

Is it larvae of some sort of dermestid beetle?

[eurytides]

Yes, unfortunately Paul, this is a carpet beetle larva.

[Paul K]

Visible damage is done to two specimens.
One ended up in the trash and the other plus few besides are in the freezer.
Unfortunately I don’t have big enough freezer for the drawer.
I placed also two more squares of vapona and will keep an eye on it.
This happened to me second or third time in 38 years of collecting but always spotted infestation in the early stage.

[kevinkk]

I'm interested in the vapona, if moth deterrent ever gets regulated here I need an option.

I've never had dermestids, what I get now and then is some critter that makes a fine dust that
filters down through the riker mount, in the few I have hanging, but sometimes, before I switched to tighter
fitting cases they'd get in, presumably from the drying process or opening the lid.

Now, I'm going to fall in the "no picture" category, but they're small tiny swarmey things, greyish.

More interested in the vapona though. Maybe it's just too big, or not enough time for the vapors to take effect.

[exoticimports]

What has been the humidity level in your home? Dermestids aren't typically active under 50% and thus in summer, which is like your summer, I have to freeze to death inside the home with the air conditioner running. Note that I'd posted a thread on this.

Vapona (and, reportedly PDB) won't kill dermestid eggs. I can tell you PDB works a lot better than vapona.

Adam has said it before, a dual freeze cycle: once to kill larvae and adults, then allow the eggs to hatch, and freeze again to kill the new larvae.

The minor blessing of winter is that I can cycle entire drawers, a number at a time, through the freezing garage. If you can do likewise you should. I cycle my entire reference collection through the garage every winter...after all, I have plenty of time.

Chuck

[Paul K]

In box shoe condo style no garage and no room for chest freezer!
I could try on balcony but that would be exposed to elements I guess even in the plastic bags?
I spread thousands of specimens and this is first time that they get infested on the board, I may freeze in smaller box all specimens before placing them in the drawer.
Clearly vapona is not 100% proof.
The larvae leaving in the specimen should be killed, or maybe it takes longer exposer to a vapour. The specimen was about 10 days inside a drawer after being transferred from the board.
The two larvae ( I’m not sure if there were more) where actually crawling around possibly trying to escape? Or look for pupating site.
Do they usually pupate in the specimen and an adult emerge from inside or they pupate somewhere else?


Keeping humidity below 50% is impossible. I would freeze to death.
Usually in the summer it is 50-70%
In winter is 40-50% as I suppose the central humidifier is installed in the building.

[exoticimports]

Well, you can run a dehumidifier in summer (as do I, in addition to the air con) which will pump heat into the home. It's the humidity that's the problem.

They will pupate anywhere; typically somewhere "hidden" like between pinning trays or under the pinning bottom. That's why you see the mature larvae, they're looking for somewhere to pupate.

Note that these larvae had already shed skins, and left damage dust, so steady observation would have detected them. Easier said than done.

Personally, I'd rotate your collection, in bags, through the balcony come January & February. The risk of damage probably isn't much, and is likely far less than damage from Dermestids.


In my experience, Dermestid infestations recur in the same place- same drawer/ case, same specimen. I had one Acherontia atropos specimen since I was a kid, and if any specimen in my collection was infested, it was always this one, again and again. I think I finally tossed it.

I work in the same room as my collection these days, so take some heed to the concerns for PDB. I don't PDB my collection in its entirety, but I will put PDB balls under specimens that are under attack, and in drawers that have historically been a problem.

Now, I diligently keep the humidity under 50%, as horrible as it is to my comfort. In my experience, the oft-quoted 50% is like a magic number; there is a difference in infestation risk between 48% and 52%.

If your home runs over 40% humidity in winter that's a blessing...we run humidifiers and can't get above 35% in Jan/ Feb. Amazing what a 10% difference does with human comfort levels.

I think (as in, opinion based on observation but not tests) that Vapona will prohibit infestations, PDB is better (in fact, more so than given credit) for eliminating infestations. So my suggestion is to double-freeze them, then use Vapona.


When we move to Florida will probably be the time when my collection is donated. I am NOT going to move to FL only to freeze to death in my own home.



Chuck

[Adam Cotton]

Paul K asked
"The question is why square of fresh vapona did not kill it once placed in the drawer?"

Dermestid larvae often don't die, unlike the adults, especially if the larva was actually inside the specimen. Relatively little of the vapona would get inside the specimen and probably not enough to kill the larva. I have seen larvae that are still alive loose in a drawer with a vapona chunk, but they tend to become semi comatose.

Adam.

[Adam Cotton]

Oct 19, 2020 20:57:28 GMT -8 kevinkk said:

I'm interested in the vapona, if moth deterrent ever gets regulated here I need an option.

I've never had dermestids, what I get now and then is some critter that makes a fine dust that
filters down through the riker mount, in the few I have hanging, but sometimes, before I switched to tighter
fitting cases they'd get in, presumably from the drying process or opening the lid.

Now, I'm going to fall in the "no picture" category, but they're small tiny swarmey things, greyish.

More interested in the vapona though. Maybe it's just too big, or not enough time for the vapors to take effect.

Your "critters" will be Psocids. The fine dust is typical Psocid damage residue.

Adam.

[nomihoudai]

I also had an occasional dermestid larva in my collection. They would damage a specimen, but when found early you could just remove them. I never had a huge outbreak, just single larva. It's not cold enough yet to move the drawers outside. In order to kill the eggs and larvae you need some hours at -18C. So a freezer is preferred.

But as said before I am not sure if the two individual larvae mean the spread of eggs. They can crawl in from the outside.

Vapona doesn't kill, it just defers pests.

[Paul K]

Oct 20, 2020 5:50:08 GMT -8 exoticimports said:

Well, you can run a dehumidifier in summer (as do I, in addition to the air con) which will pump heat into the home. It's the humidity that's the problem.

Dehumidifier is not an option either as the collection room is part of  family room, kitchen and dinning room ( it is box shoe condo: one room+bedroom)
We need to open some windows during the day and or night so humidity just equalized what's outside.

The only way to prevent it is to freeze each specimen removed from board I suppose.

[Paul K]

Oct 20, 2020 6:08:27 GMT -8 Adam Cotton said:

Paul K asked
"The question is why square of fresh vapona did not kill it once placed in the drawer?"

Dermestid larvae often don't die, unlike the adults, especially if the larva was actually inside the specimen. Relatively little of the vapona would get inside the specimen and probably not enough to kill the larva. I have seen larvae that are still alive loose in a drawer with a vapona chunk, but they tend to become semi comatose.

Adam.

If this is the case then damage would be minimal as the larvae will not developed or if so the adult won't survive in vapona environment.

[Adam Cotton]

Paul K said
"The only way to prevent it is to freeze each specimen removed from board I suppose."

That would probably be the best solution.

Adam.

[foxxdoc]

buy a used freezer keep it in a friend's garage.

TOM

[wollastoni]

I always freeze specimens after spreading before including them to the collection.
Same for bought specimens.
This way I never had any issues.

And I use Zensect balls in drawers. You can find them on Amazon : amzn.to/3m8y7Ej