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Post by exoticimports on Oct 27, 2021 6:45:05 GMT -8
I think the female only looks large. Same size as the males top right, and they’re the same size as ours and typical glaucus.
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Post by LEPMAN on Oct 27, 2021 18:53:39 GMT -8
The female is actually the largest specimen I’ve caught to date. I need to take another picture but in person it is bigger then all my other females. It stood out to me as particularly large and hence I spread it. It is from Indians so probably just a regular glaucus.
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Post by exoticimports on Nov 30, 2021 6:36:27 GMT -8
Here's a photo I find interesting for several reasons, though these specimens are not from Finger Lakes, but are from North Durham NY (SW of Albany) the zone variously called as Thermal Exclusion/Hybrid/Rust Belt. 1. they clearly exhibit the "hybrid zone" Canadensis-like features, to differing degrees. 2. Presuming ex-ova with the same month means they are siblings, note the differences: one more strongly trends toward Canadensis, and the other glaucus. Note too that Scriber (to be cited later) in a later publication made a short statement that he'd raised all morphological forms (canadensis-like, glaucus-like, and late flight/MST-like) in a single brood. If my inference is correct, that would confirm part of that statement. Open to your interpretations. Chuck
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Post by eurytides on Nov 30, 2021 17:43:21 GMT -8
Hard to say if they are siblings unless that is clearly documented somewhere. Could just be eggs found on the same collecting trip. The bottom specimen looks like pure canadensis. Note the darker claspers. The hybrids and glaucus have bright yellow claspers. The top specimen looks like the “hybrid” we have talked about.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Dec 1, 2021 1:01:56 GMT -8
Assuming the case that they really are siblings (I can't see the photos so am not commenting based on appearance, but on the posts here) it would be possible that all the phenotypes ( glaucus, canadensisand 'hybrid') can appear in the offspring of the same parents if they are themselves 'hybrids'. This of course also assumes the 'hybrids' are fertile. Indeed as eurytides stated above, if there is no proof that they are actually siblings then that cannot be assumed to be the case, even if eggs were collected at the same time and on the same plant. Adam.
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Post by exoticimports on Dec 1, 2021 7:38:05 GMT -8
Thanks Adam and Eurytides. You’re right, can’t jump to conclusions.
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Post by exoticimports on Dec 16, 2021 6:59:22 GMT -8
I've finally set all my Finger Lakes 2021 glaucus, and collated them (quite the chore). Haven't had a chance to look at them in detail, but aside from the July MST specimen and the ISQ oddity, I didn't see anything earth shattering. As eurytides suggested, I did get to Cornell to search their Tigers. Cornell has about a dozen drawers of various Tigers. What I was looking for specifically was MST, or whatever MST-like cryptic has long been noted around Ithaca, home of Cornell. I'm disappointed to report that Cornell had zero MST/ "Ithaca", though they now know what to look for in July 2022. For sake of researchers, Cornell does have a whole drawer of Papilio alexiares. And, a bunch of maynardi. Now, about the maynardi, there are a few specimens from Bon Secour, Alabama that stood out as larger than any other maynardi. Bon Secour is just over the border from Pensacola, FL. I didn't have a means to measure one, but for sake of comparison, the foam it's pinned into is the ~4" wide bottom from a Cornell unit tray. So back on topic, it's really interesting to note that Cornell has no MST/ "Ithaca" despite a collection of seven million insect specimens. The presumption expressed to me is that nobody bothered to collect them because they're just ubiquitous tiger swallowtails. Jason at Cornell noted that this may be similar to the Spring Azure Blue, which is ubiquitous, though now identified to be a complex...and the researchers need more specimens to examine. On a final note, Cornell, presumably like most institutions, has whatever was donated. They have, for example, drawer upon drawer of Papilio polyxenes. On the other hand, they have one busted Graphium hicaeton, whereas I probably have a dozen. That's it for today. I'll update when I have a chance to review the Finger Lakes tigers from 2021. Chuck
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Post by eurytides on Dec 16, 2021 23:15:59 GMT -8
Thanks for the update and your continued hard work. In a couple of months, I will take out my MST pupae. Let’s see how many survive 2 episodes of diapause.
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Post by exoticimports on Feb 15, 2022 6:28:35 GMT -8
For lack of anywhere better to put this: a Papilio glaucus record from TN in February! Of course, when the record was questioned it turns out it was raised indoors and released. Idiot. www.inaturalist.org/observations/106520363
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Post by eurytides on Feb 15, 2022 18:12:08 GMT -8
That should be deleted if it’s not a “natural” observation. I took out my remaining MST pupae Feb 12. Will know in a few weeks if they are going to eclose.
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Post by exoticimports on Feb 15, 2022 19:15:12 GMT -8
That should be deleted if it’s not a “natural” observation. I took out my remaining MST pupae Feb 12. Will know in a few weeks if they are going to eclose. Yup, just another dingbat do-gooder who just has to contribute without thinking. Good luck with the MST. I did read one paper where a few dipaused two winters (at high loss rate), in case I didn't mention it. Chuck
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Post by eurytides on Feb 15, 2022 20:40:51 GMT -8
You did Chuck, in this very thread. I have 4 pupae total and 1-2 may bead. 2 are alive and move. Will report back once I have more news.
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Post by wollastoni on Feb 17, 2022 7:02:44 GMT -8
That should be deleted if it’s not a “natural” observation. I took out my remaining MST pupae Feb 12. Will know in a few weeks if they are going to eclose. Yup, just another dingbat do-gooder who just has to contribute without thinking. Good luck with the MST. I did read one paper where a few dipaused two winters (at high loss rate), in case I didn't mention it. Chuck That's the issue with "collaborative science"... which is not really scientific, even if it sometimes help with interesting records.
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Post by palikan on Apr 20, 2022 9:05:50 GMT -8
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Post by Adam Cotton on Apr 20, 2022 10:07:55 GMT -8
Stunning! Thank you very much for posting these photos.
Are they all from the same area?
Adam.
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