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Post by bichos on Jan 24, 2020 13:31:13 GMT -8
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anna
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Post by anna on Jan 24, 2020 15:07:04 GMT -8
Personally I wouldnt touch it. |
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Jan 24, 2020 16:23:47 GMT -8
I have seen that specimen before. Several years ago, maybe more???
If it is more than $3.99, it is way out of my price range.
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Post by Paul K on Jan 24, 2020 18:33:18 GMT -8
The seller is well known around , so I would say this is genuine specimen, he wouldn’t sell fake to jeopardize his reputation as he has many rarities for sale.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jan 25, 2020 1:30:12 GMT -8
The seller is well known around , so I would say this is genuine specimen, he wouldn’t sell fake to jeopardize his reputation as he has many rarities for sale. I agree, with the proviso that he may possibly not realise that it is fake (if it is!). Oliver would definitely not deliberately sell a fake. Adam. |
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Post by wollastoni on Jan 25, 2020 2:12:29 GMT -8
Adam < It is not Oliver, it is Jens Jakusch.
And as his reputation is excellent, I am sure the specimen is a real one. Impressive gynandro indeed !
I would add that the right HW would be very hard to "faken".
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jan 25, 2020 5:54:49 GMT -8
Ah, sorry about the mistake. Indeed Jens Jakusch is an excellent seller who would not knowingly sell a fake.
I remember a few years ago there was a (must be) fake Papilio on eBay from a Chinese seller, one hindwing was arcturus and the other was bianor. That is rather different to a gynandromorph.
Adam.
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Post by trehopr1 on Jan 25, 2020 19:56:57 GMT -8
Personally speaking, when I look upon insect "oddities" like this which appear really weird (even compared to other gynanders of varying degrees); they just don't do anything for me...
A.) They are hard to believe and automatically look suspect.
B.) They are always incredibly expensive; as if pricing means some sort of exclusive ownership (fool's money).
C.) They are neither attractive to look at or admire for beauty.
D.) They really just fall into the category of being nothing more than bizarre "baubles" found in well rounded private collections who's owners have simply run out of things to find, buy, trade, or otherwise add to their extensive holdings of a given group they fancy.
If gynandromorphs are your thing then at least try to find specimens that at least look believable and better yet naturally occurring in nature.
"Things" such as this look like they have been bred with purpose in some "Frankenstein lab" of dubious pursuits.... i.e. stupid money / desperate high-end collectors.
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anna
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Post by anna on Jan 25, 2020 20:14:09 GMT -8
Personally speaking, when I look upon insect "oddities" like this which appear really weird (even compared to other gynanders of varying degrees); they just don't do anything for me... A.) They are hard to believe and automatically look suspect. B.) They are always incredibly expensive; as if pricing means some sort of exclusive ownership (fool's money). C.) They are neither attractive to look at or admire for beauty. D.) They really just fall into the category of being nothing more than bizarre "baubles" found in well rounded private collections who's owners have simply run out of things to find, buy, trade, or otherwise add to their extensive holdings of a given group they fancy. If gynandromorphs are your thing then at least try to find specimens that at least look believable and better yet naturally occurring in nature. "Things" such as this look like they have been bred with purpose in some "Frankenstein lab" of dubious pursuits.... i.e. stupid money / desperate high-end collectors. I fully agree. Personally I treat gynandromorphs same way as hybrids, curiosities.. |
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Post by Paul K on Jan 26, 2020 6:35:29 GMT -8
This are freaks of the nature. They are nothing to admire as a beauty but as a rare occurrence.
Personally I wouldn’t buy gynandromorph but I would love to find one my self as it is almost like win a jackpot.
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Post by bichos on Jan 26, 2020 13:17:39 GMT -8
To each their own.
If i couldn't afford these, i wouldn't like them either.
I once found a bilateral gynandro Hypolimnas bolina, it was quite a rush.
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anna
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Post by anna on Jan 26, 2020 14:06:26 GMT -8
To each their own. If i couldn't afford these, i wouldn't like them either. I once found a bilateral gynandro Hypolimnas bolina, it was quite a rush. In my case, not affording isnt an issue, I dont say I dont like because I cant afford, that is childish. I am sure you didn't mean it that way. A long time ago,Bernatd D'Abrera offered me the bi lateral gynandromorph O.p.poseidon from his book on Birdwings for $2,000Aud. I refused, not because of lack of cash ,but because I dont have interest in them. Regrettably though, I was also offered by him a 2 volume copy of Icones Ornithopterorum by Rippon.also for $2000Aud. This was in 1975. This I do regret saying no to. I was young and wanted to travel, the books were heavy. When young we are not very bright sometimes.😥 |
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Post by trehopr1 on Jan 27, 2020 0:06:31 GMT -8
I generally hold naturalized gynandromorphs in high regard. Who wouldn't .... After all each is a "one of a kind" whether it is only a quarter gynandro or full bi-lateral or a "mosaic". They are natural occurring anomalies in the gene pool which are rarely encountered in nature. These curiosities are at best a once in a lifetime occurance (for a collector to find); which is why they deserve the reverence they receive amongst collectors.
However, when man steps in and starts prolifically breeding a particular species (for it's beauty and profit) but, then does not stop there and starts "toying" around in other ways -- for effect (to see what will happen); then that is where the topic of gynandromorphs becomes cheapened or watered down.
The same holds true for naturalized aberrations. Find a real McCoy in nature and other collector's hearts will "skip a beat".... But, the moment several of something show up for sale or appear as a series in a collection then well --- they just are not worth much more than the typical example. And then again, the whole concept of something truely "unique" in nature; becomes cheapened/ watered down.
Hybrids are another topic for the most part which I would rather not delve into since the majority of what we encounter is produced through human "dabbling". But, don't get me wrong; naturalized hybridization does occur in some Colias, Heliconinae, and some Nymphalidae (as comes to mind at this moment). Again, in nature it is not something one will likely encounter very often in one's lifetime but, the "real thing" is mighty special....
I cannot help but say that in these last 6 years or so I have seen numerous Morphinae (in particular) all looking so bizarre in the "genetics" department and yet none of them sport any wing wear whatsoever.... They are perfect --- not a scale out of place. As though, the moment their wings looked dried somebody pulled out the syringe. Not a wing flap out of them. So, if this situation is so obvious that these are breeder examples; why the devil would anyone want to pay an arm or a leg for one!!
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Post by wollastoni on Jan 27, 2020 1:27:23 GMT -8
I generally hold naturalized gynandromorphs in high regard. Who wouldn't .... After all each is a "one of a kind" whether it is only a quarter gynandro or full bi-lateral or a "mosaic". They are natural occurring anomalies in the gene pool which are rarely encountered in nature. These curiosities are at best a once in a lifetime occurance (for a collector to find); which is why they deserve the reverence they receive amongst collectors. However, when man steps in and starts prolifically breeding a particular species (for it's beauty and profit) but, then does not stop there and starts "toying" around in other ways -- for effect (to see what will happen); then that is where the topic of gynandromorphs becomes cheapened or watered down. The same holds true for naturalized aberrations. Find a real McCoy in nature and other collector's hearts will "skip a beat".... But, the moment several of something show up for sale or appear as a series in a collection then well --- they just are not worth much more than the typical example. And then again, the whole concept of something truely "unique" in nature; becomes cheapened/ watered down. Hybrids are another topic for the most part which I would rather not delve into since the majority of what we encounter is produced through human "dabbling". But, don't get me wrong; naturalized hybridization does occur in some Colias, Heliconinae, and some Nymphalidae (as comes to mind at this moment). Again, in nature it is not something one will likely encounter very often in one's lifetime but, the "real thing" is mighty special.... I cannot help but say that in these last 6 years or so I have seen numerous Morphinae (in particular) all looking so bizarre in the "genetics" department and yet none of them sport any wing wear whatsoever.... They are perfect --- not a scale out of place. As though, the moment their wings looked dried somebody pulled out the syringe. Not a wing flap out of them. So, if this situation is so obvious that these are breeder examples; why the devil would anyone want to pay an arm or a leg for one!! Let's add few points : - I know many insect breeders and none of them are "wealthy people" - it is a very hard job to be succesful. Very easy to lose all the insects with a single desease - it requires to work all day without leaving your house for 1 or 2 weeks - producing beautiful genetic aberrations is very hard and requires a lot of skills - producing heat-shocked ab is easier but not so easy (and the value on the market is not so high) So I think all of them do this by passion, not to earn money. And I would say the same for all insect sellers. It is a very tough job and you need to be very smart and pro to succeed. |
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