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Post by luehdorf on Apr 30, 2019 0:34:01 GMT -8
The video about the walrusses is horrible. I really did think climate change is a tiny bit more subtle, just two or three years like that and this population is gone. Or could this be just a temporary thing or phenomena like lemmings falling down cliffs from time to time?
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Post by wingedwishes on Apr 30, 2019 19:38:44 GMT -8
Panic is unproductive. So also is predicting the end of the world every year. I think it was in 1922 that the predictions began of Arctic oceans warming and seals dying and in the late 1950's a prediction of no ice. Again and again and again ad infinitum. Until 1961 when climate scientists agreed that the planet was getting colder. An Ice age, they reported, was coming in the 1970's. Then the claim was that there would be no life in the oceans at all by the year 2000. I do my part and then some. So does my family. Jan claimed to do a part as well. Why panic? Using the deadly disease logic train - If the doctor stated you had a personal cancer and would die in a few months but six months later you were alive and the doctor said "oh you will die in a few more months" and then another year goes by..still alive...How many times until you stopped panicking or believing the doctor even though the doctor is the "expert?" I'm not going to panic. I do not live by fear or panic but by being at ease with what I do and who I am. Someday, the Human species will end and so will the planet. Before that time, DON'T PANIC, carry a towel, and enjoy it. Or take drugs. Lots of drugs.
Ty
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Post by bichos on May 2, 2019 16:53:06 GMT -8
We should be harvesting walruses and send that meat to Africa rather than letting Africans flood into Europe.
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Post by wingedwishes on May 2, 2019 19:30:31 GMT -8
Actually, there are qualified scientists who do not agree. You stated that "it seems"..... Things are not often as they seem. For example, you state you are Agnostic and cannot be if you go by panic, fear and supposition (which is the basis for "it seems").
Cancer is very often not terminal also at least in the United States. What kind of health care to they give you in Sweden? The people you know may live by fear and panic. The people I know do not.
BTW - Do you know what year the pinnipeds were filmed? Do you also know the amount of sea ice that was measured this year and have you looked at the levels as they have been measured since levels were recorded? Conversely - there is a variable to sea ice development and maturation that greatly affects the measure but is unrelated to temperature and has never been addressed as it has not yet been able to be accounted for.
In reading your post again Jan, I realize that you have made very many factual errors in your statements. I expect a supercilious response rather than a discussion from you based on your previous responses and based on cultural opinions you have already espoused. I don't really want to spend the time pointing them out as you will refuse to believe them when they are pointed out (at least you have in the past) and I have much more pertinent tasks. I do truthfully look forward to reading what you will write next and have a slim hope the demeanor of your replies will eventually evolve to accept that someone who might not agree with you is possibly correct.
As for walrus meat - It is not bad. A bit chewy but the flavor is good. I prefer it over cooked. It is not lack of food that is the biggest cause of the migration out of Africa. Part of it is happening as a result of problems with old colonialism being resented as well as meddling by people in Northern latitudes....
Ty
ibb=nrq 10
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Post by exoticimports on May 3, 2019 9:18:31 GMT -8
Panic may indeed be unproductive. Inaction certainly has been proven to be unproductive too and has been tried for many decades. No glory on that one. At least panic may very well spark a reaction in common folks In one country everyone reserves the right to carry guns to protect themselves - against other people with guns. That's fear and panic. Jan Panic is never productive. Action based on panic is prone to be the wrong action; the likelihood of panic resulting in the best possible action is very low. Alienating people by labeling their actions as driven by panic never improves your position; quite the contrary, in doing so, particularly when wrong, it creates, at the least, an impression you don't know what you are talking about, and discredits everything- right or wrong- you espouse. In more than one country everyone has a right to carry guns. So I'm not sure if you mean Panama, Norway, or Finland. But certainly, in none of these countries are there reports of gun-owner panic. Panic is a reaction based on ignorance. Some will panic at the sight of a snake, or spider, or gun; meanwhile those who are not ignorant exhibit no such panic. The sole difference is whether the individual (or group) is ignorant or informed. I've carried a gun- by necessity- in USA, Cambodia and Solomon Islands, and have been surrounded by people with guns in Philippines, Canada, Australia, Fiji, etc. At no time did I feel panicked or observe panic by those with the guns. Recognizing that your claim is invalid calls all other statements into question; it's easier to just completely invalidate everything you write, and rely on more reputable sources. It's unfortunate, because those who present false claims may well have great knowledge in other areas, such as entomology. However, I for one simply don't have time to verify and filter everything you write. Fortunately, there are a multitude of sources for reliable information. Chuck |
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Post by wingedwishes on May 3, 2019 9:50:58 GMT -8
Panic may indeed be unproductive. Inaction certainly has been proven to be unproductive too and has been tried for many decades. No glory on that one. At least panic may very well spark a reaction in common folks In one country everyone reserves the right to carry guns to protect themselves - against other people with guns. That's fear and panic. Jan Panic is never productive. Action based on panic is prone to be the wrong action; the likelihood of panic resulting in the best possible action is very low. Alienating people by labeling their actions as driven by panic never improves your position; quite the contrary, in doing so, particularly when wrong, it creates, at the least, an impression you don't know what you are talking about, and discredits everything- right or wrong- you espouse. In more than one country everyone has a right to carry guns. So I'm not sure if you mean Panama, Norway, or Finland. But certainly, in none of these countries are there reports of gun-owner panic. Panic is a reaction based on ignorance. Some will panic at the sight of a snake, or spider, or gun; meanwhile those who are not ignorant exhibit no such panic. The sole difference is whether the individual (or group) is ignorant or informed. I've carried a gun- by necessity- in USA, Cambodia and Solomon Islands, and have been surrounded by people with guns in Philippines, Canada, Australia, Fiji, etc. At no time did I feel panicked or observe panic by those with the guns. Recognizing that your claim is invalid calls all other statements into question; it's easier to just completely invalidate everything you write, and rely on more reputable sources. It's unfortunate, because those who present false claims may well have great knowledge in other areas, such as entomology. However, I for one simply don't have time to verify and filter everything you write. Fortunately, there are a multitude of sources for reliable information. Chuck Well stated! I am not so eloquent. I don't own a gun but have never been bothered by anyone with one other than once. I propose that the discussion be more directed to methods of good stewardship. How can each of us make our place better. In the realm of reason we may not agree on best actions but being accountable for our own actions rather than blaming big "_____" will overflow to make others want to emulate us. Teach, do, etc..... |
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on May 3, 2019 10:07:10 GMT -8
Eat Walrus? That equates to eating Nancy Pelosi. Tough and chewy, and both still smell like fish.
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Post by wingedwishes on May 3, 2019 10:29:58 GMT -8
Eat Walrus? That equates to eating Nancy Pelosi. Tough and chewy, and both still smell like fish. Only walrus is non toxic! Love your posts brother. Yes, I have tried it when visiting my northern brothers but seal actually tastes better. |
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on May 3, 2019 18:34:49 GMT -8
I do not dispute your thinking nor the message in the videos.
However, climate change is not new. The great extinction 68 million years ago was believed to have been caused by climate change.
I recently read an article in Mad Magazine that claims the increase in the number of mammals,including the human population, has resulted in higher levels of flatulence, which has caused the earth's atmosphere to heat up.
My late wife claimed I was a major contributor to that problem.
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Post by wingedwishes on May 3, 2019 18:34:59 GMT -8
You responded condescendingly once again as expected and predicted- pomposity and arrogance with contradictions. What climate scientists have you had conversations with? I suppose I am fortunate to have spent my childhood with several when my father (PhD in geography and meterology with ABD in climatology). Scientists can see evidence but one who has reasoning abilities will account that the interpretation of evidence is just that. Such interpretations have very often been incorrect. You have failed yet again to address the non emotional logic questions posed to help the issue. You do it all the time (evidence of past posts) and so you are I'm sure aware of it by now. No need to discuss it further as you will follow your set pattern and - misinterpret rather than ask / use superciliousness to demean rather than discuss facts / gather varied video links which support your narrow view. The words written about agnosticism were related to the subject to illustrate a point - More bluntly - you are a hypocrite. How do I know? Your own posts. What is the most focal defining word used to describe the philosophy? I'll save you time - skepticism. Then you post this: "Scientist having a good laugh at climate change skeptics:" Its certainly fine though. I used to describe myself as agnostic before I got more mature in my late 20's. Would you continue to listen to someone or a group of someones who, after saying the Earth was warming.......then cooling......then warming......then making frequent (false) predictions about the end of the world? I'd call that a pseudo cult because it takes blind faith to stick with it. More - you ignorantly assumed incorrectly again - I did not: 1: state that the climate is not changing OR 2:That the changing of climate is a good (or bad) thing. Lastly - You have done exactly what you stated others had done; not addressed issues of this thread and instead hijacked it through ignorance. I posted " propose that the discussion be more directed to methods of good stewardship. How can each of us make our place better. In the realm of reason we may not agree on best actions but being accountable for our own actions rather than blaming big "_____" will overflow to make others want to emulate us. Teach, do, etc....."---------  Well? Is it posting lots of video links your way to help the planet? You began with 'Y'all need to panic and as of your last post, ended with 'we handled the issue with caution, rather than keep on driving full speed into the wall of no return.' OK, are you ready to break your pattern or do you want to continue illustrating what a Straw Man argument means? I have hope it is the former. Ty - wrp-10 |
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Post by leptraps on May 4, 2019 1:32:36 GMT -8
If your response was to my Light hearted post,I will not apologize. A number of years ago, right after MT Saint Helen popped it's cork in 2008, I read a book about volcanoes and their effect upon the earth. If I understand the power of the earth's core, the contribution that man has made to global warming is miniscule. They are approximately 1500 active volcanoes world wide, the majority are in the Pacific Rim. Below is a link to a USGS website on volcanos. It is some interesting reading. www.usgs.gov/faqs/how-many-active-volcanoes-are-there-earth?qt-news_science_products=0#qt-news_science_productsHowever, I still believe that a major contributor to global warming is Washington DC. Talk about a major source of hot air. I do not believe that man is the sole contributor to Global Warming. However, during WW2, the USA produced over ten (10) million gallons of Napalm. The vast majority was use on Japan. Another man made device that I believe has had a serious effect about our earth. Nuclear Bombs. If I remember correctly, the USA used the Bikini Islands to test eight H Bombs. The last movie I viewed on the results of a nuclear bomb was Godzilla. Talk about a lot of hot air. We talk about global warming, just a ban on Air Conditioning would help or possibly stop gobal warming. But one must admit, it is great to sleep in a cool house on a hot and sultry night, or better yet, a little nookie in a cool bed on a hot steamy night. Did I mention all the hot air from flatulence? And lastly: Here in Kentucky we produce more whiskey, bourbon and Scotch than anywhere else in the world. Just think of the energy used to produce all that booze. Just drive west from Lexington, Kentucky on the Western Kentucky Parkway. As you approach Bardstown, look to the south. The are 16 new whiskey/bourbon warehouses for aging booze in the barrel and there are more to come. Think about all the energy used to make all that booze. Think about all the sorrow that the booze will pour out on society. The next time you sit on the porcelain throne and take a dump, think about the energy required to process and sterilize a load of poop. And then there is Milorganite (Osmocote) The main ingredient in Lawn Fertilizer. Processed human waste. I have said enough. Now, what are you willing to do without to help reduce or stop global warming? We will pay Global Warming some lip service, that will be about it. |
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Post by nomihoudai on May 4, 2019 9:07:58 GMT -8
What a boring thread. What are you doing in your daily life to be ecologically mindful? Sorry for writing only 3 sentences and not half a book like others.
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Post by wingedwishes on May 4, 2019 13:01:46 GMT -8
What a boring thread. What are you doing in your daily life to be ecologically mindful? Sorry for writing only 3 sentences and not half a book like others. Good question asked now by 3 of us. Rather than deal with continuing straw man arguments that are going nowhere as evidenced by the immaturity of Jan, I'll answer now and ask if there is more that can be reasonably done. I purchased some land. On the land I added a large number of trees (last count was 220 mature trees - several are crop bearing). My neighbors allow me to collect their branches and yard waste to till into the soil rather than allowing it to go into a landfill. I was concerned about my next step, solar panels. Many of the solar panel manufacturers in China are also bad - really bad- polluters. I still added a lot of them to the house and eliminated natural gas suppliers. Extra solar gets sold back to the energy companies. I cultivate a lot of clover (nitrogen fixers) and my daughter collects the 4 leaf clovers (she finds 2-3 dozen a week) and sells them. The income is used to build up our breeding program of Danaous plexippus which also are sold to save to buy more land in the future. Rain water is collected in horse troughs to water the vegetables. We do not go out to eat and produce about 50% of our own food. Bath/shower water is recycled into the crops as well and we make sure to not use agents that would be detrimental to the land when we wash. Thankfully, with such a cool Spring, we have used even very little of our solar power and when an AC is used, it is solar. 4 times or more a month I and my daughter go to schools/retirement centers at no cost to teach conservation and more importantly, restoration. The local large zoo has contacted me to teach there also. The volunteering is at no cost to show the appreciation I have for those who taught me as well. Almost everything we buy is nearby and a walkable distance. We have a small area (8' shed) we use to rehab injured wildlife for later release. Paper from neighbors is shredded and buried as well. There is more but I'll continue after others have had a chance to post. Ty |
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Post by wingedwishes on May 4, 2019 13:36:40 GMT -8
Chicken? I did not know that. We went with rabbit and fish but limited fish as I have an allergy. Rabbits are thriving like roaches here and they build up in numbers where they cannot sustain and crash. Lots of predatory animals around like coyote, foxes, and wolves keep them under control. Occasionally deer or feral pigs which are also reproductive race runners. Gross as it sounds, beetle grubs are not bad. I do hunt on my land but sustainably. There is a plant native here called soapweed (yucca) whose roods are truly soaplike. A little lavender and it works like soap - hence the common name.
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Post by exoticimports on May 8, 2019 5:23:29 GMT -8
The earth has gone through many warming and cooling cycles. I have no doubt that it will recover from this one, whether man made or natural, or both.
That isn't to say we shouldn't stop destroying the environment. Yet, the focus seems to be out of whack. No doubt it's bad to dump chemicals into the atmosphere, particularly from vehicles. Yet deforestation only gets lip service from the same global warming activists.
Worse yet- and largely ignored- is the 95% loss of oceanic apex predators and pelagics; not to mention virtual elimination of cod and such in the North Sea and Grand Banks. Forget the whales and walrus and polar bears, frankly the loss of these animals has relatively little overall impact. The loss of forests, and the loss of apex fish, now that has far-reaching ecological impact.
Face it, the problem all comes down to population. But nobody except the Chinese has demonstrated the least bit of concern for population. Zero growth would be but a hiccup, truthfully the population needs a massive decrease.
I'll bite on the global warming bait. My solution is elimination of autos in Europe, make air conditioning and heating illegal, make it illegal to grow plants for anything other than food, and a UN mandate allowing air strikes at will, anywhere, anytime, in any country, against logging operations in virgin forest. US pulls out of UN, and uses the subsidies for anti-logging munitions. Cities will be held immediately accountable for aged sewage systems that dump raw effluence into waterways, with repair funds to be immediately withdrawn from their bank accounts to fix the problem; if this comes out of the arts and entertainment budget, too bad. Cities that exceed minimum safe air quality standards will immediately suspend both public and private vehicle use during any such periods.
That should be a good start to address global warming.
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