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Post by takahe on Mar 14, 2011 21:24:54 GMT -8
I'm posting this in Open Topics because I really don't know where it fits in.
I just got a very expensive rare beetle from a certain dealer (I won't say who it is or where so as not to be slanderous). It was listed as an A1 specimen, but still I asked the person beforehand if it had all tarsi and antennae. They replied that they could not tell because it was wrapped and the legs were folded underneath it, but they assumed it was an A1 specimen. So I bought it, and now that I have it I have found it is missing an entire front leg.
Should I be upset about this? Or is it normal for sellers to call damaged specimens A1? I've had one similar experience before, with a different dealer but it was a cheap specimen and it was a small antenna that was missing.
Bradleigh
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Post by nomihoudai on Mar 15, 2011 2:19:43 GMT -8
It would be your right to ask the money back in my opinion, especially because it is a whole leg, I would call this specimen B quality as legs are the fragile part of the beetle. Dealers have to check their specimen more when they advise them as A1.
I once had a similar experience, I told a dealer I would buy 5 Morpho off his ebaystore only if the antennae are complete as I wanted to frame them and their antennae are important. He did send them then and I was confident that the antennae are complete as he send them but when they arrived antennae were missing and there was even marked on the specimen that one antennae was missing... I did not put the story up in the trading reports nor will I tell the name now because I have nothing by destroying a man's reputation but in short, I stopped completely buying from him and that is what he got from that story. So think twice if you still want to buy there if they don't refund your specimen.
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Post by lordpandarus on Mar 15, 2011 11:50:19 GMT -8
I complain when there is a flaw in the wings for butterflies (big rub or chip on specimen listed as A1)
I have not yet complained for a broken antennae (happens in shipping sometimes)
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Post by prillbug2 on Mar 15, 2011 12:30:45 GMT -8
If it has 3 legs, one antennae, one set of wings, and correct, full data, then it's useful, especially if it isn't identified to species. I would write the dealer and chew him out for not checking the specimens before sending them. Mainly, I just complain if the data is not accurate, or if they left the full date of collection out. To me that is more important than getting a perfect specimen, which you can't always get anyway. There's always some flaw somewhere, especially in the wings of leps if you look at the wings closely, there are always some missing scales sitting in the envelope, so you didn't get perfection. I don't necessarily expect it in the field and I don't always expect it from the dealers. In fact, one time I got some longhorns from a dealer in China, and I found a specimen with a missing tarsus, but someone had glued a lucanid tarsus onto the end of the femora. I chewed him out for it and told him not to do it again. I threw the specimen away, because the data was wrong anyway.
Jeff Prill
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Post by wolf on Mar 15, 2011 13:13:17 GMT -8
i guess the point here isn't if it's scientifically valuable..but the fact that he payed a certain amount for a specimen labeled as A1, when it infact was a A-/B specimen which he then should've gotten to a cheaper price.
am i right?
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2011 13:35:35 GMT -8
To put it succinctly.....yes, by all means you are right. I've dedicated a whole website to this very issue.
Grading insect quality is indeed a major part of the commercial facets of the hobby. When I get a specimen in less a condition than what was promised, I politely contact the dealer and (most often) they adjust the cost or offer a replacement.
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Post by takahe on Mar 15, 2011 14:30:36 GMT -8
Yes I wasn't saying that it isn't scientifically valuable. It has data (location, month and year).
But some of the other responders did bring up an interesting point. How can we as buyers know if data is correct? How would we know if a bug was caught on a certain day in a certain forest when it's halfway around the world? Who's to say whether it was taken out of a game preserve, or reared on a butterfly farm? And if it was reared, what day did it emerge from the chrysalis? Could we really know if that kind of data was one hundred percent accurate? Most specimens I buy have month and year, and location. Recently, some have had no date at all, just location. One dealer in particular seems to have a lot of specimens like this. I have a feeling it's possible that overseas dealers are much more careful about data since they live in places with far stricter laws than the US, but I'm not equipped to buy overseas and do not wish to deal with the US laws regarding this subject. I'm beginning to believe that in the maybe not so distant future insect collecting will be universally outlawed anyway. It already is in many countries.
The beetle in question is 6 inch Dynastes hercules, and it's missing an entire front leg. An awesome sight even missing a leg, but I wish it wasn't missing.
Bradleigh
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Post by lordpandarus on Mar 15, 2011 14:39:31 GMT -8
There's always a few dud specimens even from the best dealers (2 or 3 bad specimens out of 30 lets say) I don't think I ever got a perfect order . I mention it so they send another one next time. If the specimen was really cheap and not hard to get in the future I don't mention it (not to "overcomplain")
If the dealer consistently sends a lot a bad specimens in an A1 order , I stop ordering from there or only get species I can't find elsewhere and order several to make sure one of the bunch is alright.
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