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Post by teinopalpus on Jan 25, 2013 0:47:02 GMT -8
Many thanks Thierry and Maurizio, This group of butterflies is really very interesting. Just bought beautiful female of Papilio microps from fantastic ethiopian fresh stock of Cyril Di Gennaro / he has also some amazing dardanus forms  / Thierry I found you wrote description of female of chitondensis. This weekend I will make order of one copy from Entomoafricana. At first I must look if there is any interesting for me also in other numbers of journal. Jan |
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Post by africaone on Jan 25, 2013 1:27:22 GMT -8
:-) Go on the site of Entomologia africana ( www.entomoafricana.org/engl/defaula.htm ) and make a search with the word Papilio in the "summary" page (where all published papers are listed). They are some on Papilio (rex, zagreus, chitondoensis, aberation, from African islands, ....) it is terrific that there are none global serious work on the African Papilio with pictures of all species and variation and keys ? and despite there are some nice private collections to do it and many local works yet made (Kielland, Larsen, Turlin, Berger, etc.). May be someone is preparing it (Adam  ) Rich, as Ian quoted it seems you forgot to take into account P. sosia in Central Africa .... don't forget also that verso is important ! |
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jan 25, 2013 7:58:56 GMT -8
Thierry,
You said it
"don't forget also that verso is important !"
So lets see a verso photo of chitondensis too. ;-)
I agree though, verso is very important in the nireus group. Just to start with the verso of chrapkowskii is different from chrapkowskoides (= bromius).
Sadly I am currently in no position to prepare anything on African Papilio, much as I would like to one day, and I have not heard that anyone is working seriously on them at the moment.
Adam.
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Post by africaone on Jan 25, 2013 8:09:06 GMT -8
here .... Adam, what is the diffrence between chrapkowskii and chrapkowskoides ? Attachments:
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jan 25, 2013 9:41:35 GMT -8
According to Hancock, 1984 (Arnoldia, 9(12): 181-215):
P. bromius
Underside of forewing apex and discal area of hindwing without satiny markings in males or with these markings weakly developed; submarginal pale spots present on both fore and hind wings, reduced and occasionally absent on forewings.
ssp. chrapkowskoides
On the underside a weak satiny pattern is usually present, occasionally absent. The pale submarginal patches on the underside of the forewing are present but usually reduced; occasionally they are virtually absent. This is a variable race, specimens approaching typical
bromius being not uncommon. Specimens from Lake Kivu and W Tanzania (interjacens)
do not appear to be separable from chrapkowskoides from Uganda and Ituri Forest.
P. chrapkowskii
Underside of forewing apex and hindwing discal area with well developed satiny markings; both wings with submarginal pale spots.
I hesitate to post photos of my specimens, since I am not certain of the identifications. This group is a real enigma, in reality the only way to be certain is to check the genitalia. One day (hopefully) I will do that, and then see what characters can really be definitive. The whole group is a mess, and is complicated by sosia and interjectana as well.
Adam.
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Post by timmsyrj on Jan 26, 2013 13:21:18 GMT -8
I thought Bromius was now called Chrapkowskoides anyway now? but with Nominate Chrapkowskoides and Nuretini, but the above descriptions say otherwise, i've stuck with Bromius as that's what came on the labels, i will get some underside photo's over the next few days. This is one confusing group nowadays, even those Chitondensis are both different, one has narrower bands and the underside has different forewing apex colour, different tail shape and the hindwing cell veins are different. I have some specimens from Cote d'ivoire that are very different, i think a few are Sosia nominate but who knows.. A very confused Rich |
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jan 27, 2013 9:46:03 GMT -8
Rich,
Sorry, yes bromius is called chapkowskoides, but in 1984 it wasn't.
I'm also confused. I separated out what I think is chrapkowskii based on Hancock, but even then there is variation among those specimens both in the underside and in the tone of the blue band on the upperside. Some are more greenish than others among both 'chrapkowskii' and 'chrapkowskoides'. There is also considerable variation in the submarginal spots on the forewings, presence/absence of small marginal spots and in the golden hindwing submarginal spots in many of the nireus group species. This is one group I'm still not at all sure about, and need to see much more material before I even start to do anything with them.
Adam.
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Post by timmsyrj on Jan 28, 2013 5:24:59 GMT -8
Thanks for the feedback and info, i hadn't forgotten Sosia, pretty sure that none of those above are Sosia but i have added the following photo's with top and underside shots, i have also added a couple of males from Cote d'ivoire labelled as Nireus but could be Sosia nominate (welcome feedback on anything).
Un-fortunately i don't know of any website with reference on this group, as Adam said variation in each species is variable and some of these below could be one of two possibly three species, who knows for sure, anyone!!
Rich
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Post by timmsyrj on Jan 28, 2013 5:27:15 GMT -8
Papilio Bromius pair (again sticking with old name as this is on the labels, apologies for this Adam). Attachments:
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Post by timmsyrj on Jan 28, 2013 5:28:04 GMT -8
another bromius pair Attachments:
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Post by timmsyrj on Jan 28, 2013 5:28:46 GMT -8
bromius females Attachments:
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Post by timmsyrj on Jan 28, 2013 5:29:28 GMT -8
bromius females from Maka Attachments:
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Post by timmsyrj on Jan 28, 2013 5:32:30 GMT -8
another female Attachments:
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Post by timmsyrj on Jan 28, 2013 5:33:30 GMT -8
one from Cote d'ivoire and one from Ebogo Cameroun Attachments:
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Post by timmsyrj on Jan 28, 2013 5:34:45 GMT -8
Papilio Chrapkowskii (according to data labels). Attachments:
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