Parnassius clodius strohbeeni

[pittendrighinsects]

Butterflies of America has some nice pics of that ssp. :http://butterfliesofamerica.com/parnassius_clodius_strohbeeni.htm

Quintin

[Chris Grinter]

There is a large series of this butterfly at the California Academy of Sciences - perhaps 25+ off the top of my head. That's the most I've ever seen in once place.

I very highly doubt over collecting had anything to do with its demise. Like many California localities the Santa Cruz Mts have been heavily developed, grazed, burned, logged etc. I believe the hostplant was absent? for a few decades but has now returned - of course it's too late for the butterfly. There are also quite a few butterfly collectors in northern California, chances are it would have been found in the last 50 years if it were still around.

Do you have the articles that cite over collecting for this butterfly? I'd be interested in reading.

CG

[boogtwo]

Don't hold your breathe on ever getting a specimen folks. Parnassinae have been one of my specilties since the early 60's, not as a collector but as one who studied life histories and only assembled a bare minimal synoptic collection for future reference of any lepidopteran sp/ssp. I do not have one in my SC naturally, but I've seen some of those in other collections.

Several papers have been written about this subspecies by serious amatuer and professsional Lepidopterists', most of which will not be findable on the Internet as they are rarely found even in natural history museums. Some of what copies that are out there are in private hands - i have many, but nine for this subspecies. They were wriiten from the efforts to learn their life history, save and later confirm the assumed loss of this subspecies. I read some of them years ago, the findings autor(s) specific, but if I remember all generally putting both habitat loss and collecting in the blame colume. With the habitat loss the massive decline of larval food plants, but I don't remember if attributed to the hands of man or naturally caused. John Strohbeen himself over collected them from the very start though, put together collections for appropriate institutions, not only several in CA, but at least as far reaching as the Smithsonian and also probably in help for private collections. And he noted availablity and decline long before he died in the mid 70's. While some would probably be present in private collections, maybe even in high numbers, that is not something that may not be advertised to avoid every soul that came along wanting one/some of them, including other institutions. It's even a reasonable assumtion they were in decline when Strohbeen discovered them and already on the way out just like so many other species in that state.

I've seen the effects of overcollecting first hand that effectively were the end of colonies of other species, where it was positive that habitat loss had zero to do with it. So possible to be recolonized eventually either naturally or by mans help maybe. One such about 150 miles from me suffered that fate by the very early 90's because when discovered the location was highly advertised in journals of societies, etc. And it has still never came back on its own, and most likely never will. A speculation only but In part because all the other newly discovered very small colonies I eventually found within 40-50 miles and no where else within hindreds of square miles of sutible habitat I never told anybody about. To protect them from the same fate by over collecting. It is a species where the larval food plant went on and on for countless hunreds of square miles and what at first appeared to by very sutible habitat. But I eventually learned of another requirement previously unknown by discovering the new colonieds in turn what caused the iosolation between the colonies I found. Add that their females lay very few eggs and their larvae are heavily parasitized, so the chance of self recolonization is very low. This was the last 5-6 years at the end of my field work days and rearing consecutive generations enmass to restock/strengthen declining colonies o fmany species. There was just not enough availabe "stock" at all of those other colonies combined to build enough from to do any good anyway. So the only known colony is gone and may never return. Unless someone else figures out what I did they would have to stumbles into those other isolated small colonies to find them. So they do have a chance.

Good example of massive overcollecting was mentioned right on this forum some time back. A collection where even the first species alone contained 14,000 mounted of the exact same bug from the exact same locations. IOW, a massive long series for absolutely no scientific benifit and that would have an undesireable effect on that species at those locations. And those 14K were just a small drop in a bucket of that entire collection.

We all do lepidoptera for our own individual reason, nothing wrong with that, but massive overcollecting of this magnitude is shooting yourself in the head and taking the bug down with you IMO.

[jshuey]

Someone told me once that the early successional habitats on Mt Shasta that the butterfly used are almost all gone due to fire suppression.


If true, chalk another one up to Smokey the Bear. Many of the endangered butterflies in the western US are on the list because wildfires have been aggressively suppressed for many decades, causing open woodlands and meadow habitats to become dense forest.

Shuey

[evra]

I've collected Parnassius clodius altaurus before. It's interesting how localized it is. You can drive around all day and you'd be lucky to see one, and then you stumble on a meadow where there are dozens in an area the size of a football field that looks no different than a hundred other meadows that you saw that day. I wonder if ssp. strohbeeni was similar.

[boogtwo]

Many Parnassius species/subspecies in NA are in localized colonies AND very abuntant in other colonies within their entire range despite thereb eing suitable habita/larval food plants in between. Why can vary widely to a reason not proven. They are one of the most ancient Rhop subfamilies on earth that have other common quirks, some that even jeopardize their survival. So they are where you find them - at the right time at the right elevation. Finding the right habitat with LFP's present does not mean a colony exists there, even if at it at the right time of the season for that location to have adults or larvae present, or even if you could find ovum.

In the case of P.C. stohbeeni the LFP was known to be declining, maybe even soon after the ssp was first assigned. I believe I have read the LFP not only survived, but is coming back. Works for the plant, but too late for the bug - maybe. There have been other species thought long extinct for many decades that have been seen again in very small numbers only to disappear again for decades. They have to be still present somewhere to do so, but unseen by man for years.