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Post by panzerman on Jan 22, 2011 6:32:42 GMT -8
From Reserva Forestal Los Santos, San Jose, Costa-Rica.. abderus syedra John  Attachments:
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jan 22, 2011 8:16:10 GMT -8
What is the difference between abderus and garamas that makes you regard them as separate species?
Adam.
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Post by panzerman on Jan 22, 2011 10:13:05 GMT -8
Adam: This is one of my pet peeves, some list garamas, abderus, baroni, electyron, syedra as ssp. of garamas, others list garamas as a sp., separate from abderus with ssp. abderus, syedra, baroni, electyron.... Much like the mess with zagreus-ascolius-neyi-bachus complex..... John  |
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Post by bobw on Jan 22, 2011 10:30:36 GMT -8
What is the difference between abderus and garamas that makes you regard them as separate species? Adam. I've always wondered about that as there seems to be little morphological justification for it. Someone once told me that abderus is a medium to high altitude species whereas garamas flies in the lowlands. Not having seen them in the wild I can't comment. Bob |
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Post by maurizio on Jan 22, 2011 15:21:48 GMT -8
I do not have a documented opinion on abderus and garamas, although I have always considered them as belonging to the same species, while my thoughts about Papilio zagreus are not in line with Tyler et al.
I believe Papilio zagreus (including, possibly, ascolius) and Papilio bachus two different species (both are locally sympatric in northern Peru and eastern Ecuador, although bachus usually flies at an altitude slightly higher than zagreus) and Papilio neyi is, in my opinion, the most ancestral species which flies in the plains. Within the subspecies of neyi, I think bedoci is the oldest, best, the most similar to a hypothetical ancestor.
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jaume
Full Member
Posts: 210
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Post by jaume on Jan 23, 2011 1:46:51 GMT -8
I think that some time ago we had the same discussion about garamas here in the forum..... In my opinion all of them are ssp. of garamas and the altitude where they are collected is not an important point about how to classify them. I have collected myself in central america and I can say the for example garamas garamas flies in Puebla /Mexico at 2200m, garamas abderus in Oaxaca at 2000m, garamas baroni also in Oaxaca at 1500, garamas syedra in Costa Rica at 1600; perhaps garamas electryon that occurs from southern Mexico to El Salvador is the most lowland ssp.
JAUME
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