vwman
Full Member
Posts: 72
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Post by vwman on Apr 20, 2012 8:38:36 GMT -8
www.ebay.com/itm/280867306127I don't know what to think of this. There are really good close ups and if this is fake, this person did an amazing job of gluing the joints to look legit. if this is real I would ask Mr. Cotton on his thoughts
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Post by wollastoni on Apr 20, 2012 9:06:32 GMT -8
Reminds me Eugene Le Moult book ("Mes chasses aux papillons) where he said that if you cut 2 morphos male and female alive, and joins both parts, it heals naturally and once dried you can't see it's a fake. Don't know if it's true as Le Moult wrote a lot of fake stories in his book (most of them to impress European readers about dangerous wild animals of French Guyana jungles).
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2012 10:07:02 GMT -8
How can this occur naturally, have bianor and arcturus ever hybridized? As you said Brian, if it has been glued he did a very good job. A perfect bilateral gynandro of these 2 species, surely not.
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Post by mikelock34 on Apr 20, 2012 12:22:48 GMT -8
$8,888.00 and he still wants $8.00 for shipping? He must be on a very tight budget!
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Post by Adam Cotton on Apr 20, 2012 13:00:35 GMT -8
This is not a half arcturus half bianor at all, both forewings are arcturus and it's definitely not a gynandromorph; only one hindwing belongs to bianor.
Of course it must be an artefact, but the chances are the eBay seller has himself been conned. It seems strange that the butterfly can be relaxed without the wing falling off, unless the techniques described by Le Moult have been used here. I seem to remember reading that these techniques are currently being used in South America today.
In my opinion it's very dodgy, even at a normal price, never mind the ridiculous sum being asked for. I wonder what happened to its legs?
Adam.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2012 13:44:39 GMT -8
On closer inspection it does have 3 wings Arcturus and 1 hindwing bianor making it even stranger I have bought stuff from this seller and while quality is sometimes suspect I have never been conned.
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Post by thanos on Apr 20, 2012 14:03:01 GMT -8
'I wonder what happened to its legs?' -They all broke during the 'Frankenstein's experiment' lol . Definitely a FAKE. The 'gynandromorph' on the title of this listing shows how unknowledgable is this seller (I think he was cheated by the constructor of this fake, cause of lack of knowledge). And of course, even if the 2 species was possible to hybridize in nature(in China where both species occur ,-there is coll.data on the listing ,-but of course such a specimen can't occur naturally) , a hybrid never has this morphology, but has intermediate the characters of the 2 species on all wings. For me, just a hindwing was removed from the base from a P.arcturus male specimen, and a bianor's one was glued there carefully on the thorax with a type of soft glue-like material that allows the movement (and natural looking) of the foreign hindwing with rehydration, and also doesn't allow the hindwing to fall off the thorax (a kind of gum-like glue..). Or possibly, the bianor's hindwing was cut carefully together with the muscles and a small part of the thorax of bianor specimen, and was glued on the thorax of the arcturus male with the removed hindwing(+ possibly muscles removed, so to fit nicely there the bianor's hindwing and muscles/small thorax surface). The glueing was made between thoracic parts and so the natural appearance, and the normal rehydration of bianor's hindwing from its base without falling off... (although I've never done myself such things, I was able to imagine it in detail and give a more analytic description of what Le Moult was talking about ,-just with the addition that here I think was used also glue, rather than just the thoracic surfaces were pressed together(when soft, not dried) to fit and glue naturally with drying, -with glue the result is more 'sure' ). Thanos
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Post by timoinsects on Apr 22, 2012 7:01:14 GMT -8
when there're 300% benefits. the businessman can do everything.
this guy's sales are too pricy, Parnassius is an example: the original price in China:
1) the local (first hand,the direct hunter,they are local farmers),caught Parnassius and sell the the 2nd-hand seller(the bulk sellers) at the price from 2rmb,several rmb,10rmb,etc. and the 'good' sp. are at several dozen rmb till 100rmb or a bit more (very few).
2) then the second hand seller (the 'boss') sell to other chinese(that contact with foreiger) at the price from around 10rmb to several dozen,the 'good' sp. are at several hundred rmb but very few quantity.
for example,his Parnassius bought at the price 10-20rmb,then sell on ebay 50-200usd.
if anyone buy from thouse persons,forge the data,this guy is 100% not a hunter,i know he obtained his leps from whom.
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