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Post by thanos on Apr 8, 2012 23:22:34 GMT -8
Rare female f. panthias of Papilio(Pterourus) menatius laetitia from Costa Rica (almost perfect, with only a minor chip on the right hindwing). Very recent aquisition.  Thanos Attachments:
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2012 2:21:34 GMT -8
beautiful specimen Thanos, the colours are stunning, I have a Papilio menatius coelebs female reserved for me to pick up at christmas.
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Post by thanos on Apr 9, 2012 17:51:35 GMT -8
Thank you, Dunc. I'd like to get the blue and green form females of the ssp.ctesiades from Loreto,Peru. They are very beautiful, too. Recently one blue female ctesiades was sold on ebay for high price.
Thanos
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robert61
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Country: GERMANY
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Post by robert61 on Apr 18, 2012 11:17:02 GMT -8
blue and green female Papilio menatius ctesiades Robert Attachments:
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Post by thanos on Apr 18, 2012 23:27:44 GMT -8
Robert, beautiful specimens, but I was meaning the dark forms with no yellow on forewings and with much blue/green. Here you can see the blue (photo is from eBay listing ,not mine), and on the site swallowtails net is pictured a nice female of the green form of ctesiades (I mean the one without yellow, like the blue that is shown here but in green edition). Attachments:
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robert61
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Posts: 184
Country: GERMANY
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Post by robert61 on Apr 19, 2012 2:38:52 GMT -8
Hi Thanos
I ordered from my supplier blue forms..............and thats what he has send me. It was my mistake that I didnt ask him for pictures first .....
Robert
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Post by panzerman on Apr 21, 2012 14:44:10 GMT -8
Here is a blue female.... John  Attachments:
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Post by thanos on Apr 21, 2012 21:23:56 GMT -8
Robert, I see.. John, great specimen !! This female f. recidivus of menatius lenaeus looks very similar to the blue form female of ssp. ctesiades. Compare the 2 photos. Was it very expensive  ? Thanos |
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Post by thanos on Apr 21, 2012 23:25:59 GMT -8
Oops, as it comes from Tingo Maria, I think it should be the blue-green female form therapes of the ssp.eurotas, rather than ssp.lenaeus from there (lenaeus occurs mainly in Bolivia, also in Peru, but not Tingo Maria ,- can't occur there together 2 subspecies). The female forms therapes of eurotas, recidivus of lenaeus, as well the blue dark female form of ctesiades, all look very similar morphologically.
Thanos
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Post by Adam Cotton on Apr 22, 2012 4:48:24 GMT -8
Indeed the subspecies from Tingo Maria area (upper Huallaga valley) is menatius eurotas. Ssp. lenaeus occurs in southern Peru and Bolivia.
Thanos brings up an interesting point "can't occur there together 2 subspecies" [not quite correct English but never mind]. If two subspecies occur together without intergrades they are either forms of the same subspecies or separate species. There are often 'hybrid zones' where two subspecies meet and interbreed, producing specimens that look like either subspecies and with all the intergrades between.
Adam.
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Post by thanos on Apr 22, 2012 13:27:08 GMT -8
Adam, yes you're right, it is possible for 2 subspecies to overlap in a limited region of their ranges and interbreed. A good example I've experienced here in Greece is with Lucanus cervus where I catch at the same locality (on the same Quercus trees) the ssp. cervus (4 parts in antennal club), the ssp. turcicus (6 parts), and intermediate specimens from interbreeding (with 5 parts in the antennal clubs). But specifically with P.menatius, I'm not aware of a single specimen of the ssp. lenaeus coming from C.Peru, thus I find it unlikely for it to interbreed in Tingo Maria with the ssp. eurotas, and John's specimen (if the collecting data is accurate) must most possibly be the f. therapes of eurotas, rather than the f. recidivus of lenaeus (and rather than a result of interbreeding, meaning an intermediate female between recidivus and therapes ,-such a specimen would be extremely rare ,-the blue female forms recidivus and therapes are already very rare within the ssp. lenaeus and eurotas respectively). Excuse me for my English, I know they are still far from perfect, but I try to improve them  . Thanos |
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Post by Adam Cotton on Apr 23, 2012 0:38:32 GMT -8
Thanos,
I agree there is no overlap between ssp. eurotas and lenaus, thus no intermediates. Subspecies are usually geographically isolated from each other (mountains, sea, dry zone etc etc) and intermediates only occur in those cases where the insects are able to cross the barrier.
Adam.
PS. Don't worry about your English, I don't know any Greek at all. Everyone understands what you meant, which is what really matters.
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Post by javier25281 on Oct 15, 2017 5:59:33 GMT -8
Hello friends, can you help me with the correct identification of this female specimen. I think it's a green color. My provider emailed Papilio xanthopleura, I think it is not correct. Area Tingo Maria (Las Palmas)   |
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Post by Adam Cotton on Oct 15, 2017 8:40:17 GMT -8
This should be a female P. menatius eurotas, not xanthopleura.
Adam.
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Post by maurizio on Oct 15, 2017 13:25:06 GMT -8
I agree with Adam: it's a female P. menatius eurotas
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Thanos
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