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Post by bichos on Oct 16, 2011 4:25:30 GMT -8
Rev;
I do remember finding two nice sphingids in my teenge years.
And still remember the excitement and joy I experienced when I found them, I no longer collect moths and have since thrown them in the bin to make way for my lucanids.
I have had plenty of specimens destroyed through various means, you will surely laugh about it later, and you'll surely get plenty more oportunities to find more of these wonderful moths, regardless of nomenclature;)
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Post by Adam Cotton on Oct 16, 2011 7:51:16 GMT -8
Bichos,
The argument on page 1 is about taxonomy not nomenclature. This is an important distinction that many people don't understand.
Nomenclature is about naming taxa, taxonomy is about their relationships (such as whether 2 named taxa are the same species or not). Thus the ICZN Code covers ONLY the nomenclature part, zoologists apply the Code in making their taxonomic determinations about which name to use.
Adam.
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Post by Rev. Redmond Farrier on Oct 17, 2011 0:41:10 GMT -8
A spray bottle full of water is working wonders for my cat. She had tried to take some of my insects while I was processing them and each time she she got squirted. After just one day of this, she now approaches the spreading board like she wants something off of it. Then she will sniff of it and run away before I even get the bottle ready.
I can tell that she wants the big grasshopper I just spread really bad, but she refuses to get close enough to it to do any damage. The best thing is that she is not afraid of me like she would be if I were to swat at her when she tries to take one of my bugs.
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Post by bichos on Oct 17, 2011 2:50:25 GMT -8
Bichos, The argument on page 1 is about taxonomy not nomenclature. This is an important distinction that many people don't understand. Nomenclature is about naming taxa, taxonomy is about their relationships (such as whether 2 named taxa are the same species or not). Thus the ICZN Code covers ONLY the nomenclature part, zoologists apply the Code in making their taxonomic determinations about which name to use. Adam. Thanks for the clarification Adam, you can probably guess now why I did not contribute to THAT argument  and Rev you are doing the right thing disasociating your self from the negative reinforcement via the spray bottle. best that I do not coment on your cat any further, since I am not only not a cat person but I am not an furry animal person, cats, dogs I dislike them all equally  |
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Post by starlightcriminal on Oct 17, 2011 5:18:04 GMT -8
Hmm, maybe I should get a spray bottle to shoot myself every time I destroy one of my own specimens, lol. Sorry to hear this happened. My cat likes flowers. My dog flings slobber on everything. I like fuzzies, from cats to dogs to tarantulas. I also like snakes and fish and everything else alive. As such, I have a cabinet that closes which allows to me dry specimens and keep everything else out. I made it from an unfinished pantry I got on sale at Home Depot. I finished it, added a latch and rubber gasket so the door would pull tight and seal and I keep moth balls for extra assurance. Looks like a nice piece of furniture from the outside.
I think you can find more of this moth fairly easily once you find out a bit about it's local biology. Look around for spurge (Portulaca sp.) this time of year, the caterpillars really like the wild forms where I am and can often be found on the ground munching away. They have a pretty fancy skin pattern and so are fairly noticeable as far as caterpillars go. I just raise it and then you have a perfect adult. You will find larvae getting ready to pupate and hide out over the winter. Good luck!
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Post by anthony on Oct 17, 2011 7:29:12 GMT -8
A specimen may be common but have great personal value, sorry to hear about your loss and hope you catch a excellent replacement in the near future.
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Post by corradocancemi on Oct 17, 2011 15:27:18 GMT -8
Rule #1 Never leave a drawer open when it is not within your arms reach. Dear Rev, this Rule is also very important because enemies of the collection are not only the "visible" enemies like pets and kids... A great danger is represented by quite "invisible" enemies like collection's parasites (Dermestids and other insects), who can penetrate your opened drawer while you are out. |
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Post by jamesd on Oct 17, 2011 22:32:34 GMT -8
Debates appear here often it seems.
When I read the title of this post I assumed 'no more' meant extinction or ban of collection. Ah Specimen, not species.
Is Hyles closely related to Hippotion? It looks similar.
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Post by nomihoudai on Oct 17, 2011 23:12:04 GMT -8
Yes they are in the same tribe, Choerocampina Grote & Robinson, 1865, altough I find the Hyles euphorbiae group much nicer than the "skinny" Hippotion we got here.
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Post by jackblack on Oct 18, 2011 2:40:24 GMT -8
Hey Rev,
I agree with you some people really like to attack a topic/thread .
Lets get back on the road .
Cats are generally only good as crab bait I think , here in Aust they are a serious environmental threat .
Never turn your back on a specimen at home or in the field as it won`t be there when you turn around , I also have had too many take it for granted`s over the years , mainly the specimen has absconded by the time I turned back .
Hope you manage to catch another specimen , but I find sooner or later another will appear , just sometimes it can take a while .
Some of the critisms and attacks I read about between members really are quite amusing and petty and I`m only new hear myself , I agree about a new and separate thread for that , maybe something like , whats your GPS data so I can get my net out and attack you or lash you with my tongue?
I agree Rev none of it is scientifically helpfull.
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Post by Rev. Redmond Farrier on Oct 18, 2011 3:24:23 GMT -8
Had it been a lively debate, I wouldn't have said anything about it. I can enjoy a good debate and it was close enough to the topic that it wouldn't have bothered me at all. That was no debate. It was an argument full of personal attacks and very few facts to back up the sides. As for the cat, I love cats, but this one is really trying my patience. I was following "rule #1" from nomihoudai's post tonight and she still struck again. This time it was an Urbanus proteus. I dropped my forceps and they went under the chair. I climbed under the chair to get them with my spreading board less than 3 feet from me. When I looked up, she had taken it off the board and was about to eat it. It is now too damaged to bother with. At least this one was the lowest quality of three specimens I have and not something that I seldom see around here. I may have overdone it with the spray bottle this time though. She is soaked and hasn't come out of her hiding place for over two hours.  |
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Post by nomihoudai on Oct 18, 2011 4:32:58 GMT -8
rule #3 Feed the cat before mounting stuff, lol
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Post by Rev. Redmond Farrier on Oct 18, 2011 4:51:31 GMT -8
Lol, it seems that she is more interested in my bug collection than her own food. You should have seen the way she was looking at the huge grasshopper I was spreading the other day! She won't get close to it when I am looking at her, but she just sits there looking at it like she is just waiting for me to turn my back like she did with my Urbanus proteus...
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Post by palnic on Oct 23, 2011 14:03:11 GMT -8
I sympathize with the Rev, I returned home from a shopping trip having just purchased a pair of Papilio Deiphobus, Papilio Buddah & a nice pair of Delias Diaphana and left the box on the living room table, my wife decided to open the box & inspect the contents when her glasses fell from her head totally wrecking the female Deiphobus beyond repair, the Buddah suffered the same fate and the Diaphana left without any fore wings. She still can not understand why I have not been speaking to her. I have one accident prone wife to swap !!!
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Post by saturniidave on Oct 23, 2011 17:25:56 GMT -8
Jeez mate, that is a lot of money down the drain. I would make mine buy me new ones.  |
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Post by wingedwishes on Oct 24, 2011 13:24:47 GMT -8
Try Monarchs next (Danaus plexippus). Maybe your cat will get such an upset stomach from eating them that it will stop.
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Post by dertodesking on Oct 25, 2011 12:21:48 GMT -8
I sympathize with the Rev, I returned home from a shopping trip having just purchased a pair of Papilio Deiphobus, Papilio Buddah & a nice pair of Delias Diaphana and left the box on the living room table, my wife decided to open the box & inspect the contents when her glasses fell from her head totally wrecking the female Deiphobus beyond repair, the Buddah suffered the same fate and the Diaphana left without any fore wings. She still can not understand why I have not been speaking to her. I have one accident prone wife to swap !!! I sympathise (especially for the loss of the P. buddha - ouch  ). My missus once dropped her car keys on some papered specimens I had left on our kitchen table...needless to say I was NOT happy...oh...and I left her in no doubt why I wasn't speaking to her!!! Simon |
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rjb
Full Member
Posts: 187
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Post by rjb on Oct 25, 2011 18:25:28 GMT -8
Lots of sympathy to the Rev. I love cats but they can be the sneakiest, most untrustworthy creatures ever. I just returned from a couple weeks hiking around the Atlas mountains in Morocco. There were cats everywhere! We had to fend off the beggars from lots of our dinner tables.
However, making a fuss about Hyles lineata? I get about a hundred every summer by UV lights in the yard here in Albuquerque. They are a major food for my box turtle. I put them in the refrigerator each night and hand them to the turtle in the morning. As they wake up and fan their wings the turtle grabs them.
Rick
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Post by Rev. Redmond Farrier on Oct 25, 2011 21:52:53 GMT -8
As I said in the original post, I realize that this is not a high end specimen, but I have little to no interest in exotics. Not only was this the first lineata I have found, it is the only one I have ever seen. I am sure I will find another next season, but apparently they are not as common here as they are in Albuquerque.
Oh, and I know what you mean about having to defend your dinner table. I could not eat without having my spray bottle at my side for nearly a week before she finally got the picture. Now she just sits at my feet while I eat and gives me this sad look while letting out long, mournful meows.
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Post by papilio28570 on Oct 27, 2011 5:50:24 GMT -8
Rev., how do you collect your moths? This moth is very common and should be easily replaced by attracting to light or check the flower garden just around dusk.
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Post by rayrard on Oct 27, 2011 8:47:25 GMT -8
people's cats seem to be really bold. My cat never dares get near my boxes. I will lock the cat out when I have multiple boxes open but if I have one open on the table I'll let the cat hang around. I always keep an eye on him as he usually is just laying around, and I'll give him an evil eye if he's walking around the vicinity. I think he knows not to bother me when I'm near "those boxes". I've never lost a specimen on the boards and I've even left loose specimens around and the cat doesn't bother them (or know they are there). Drying specimens are left in a closet shelf where the cat has never reached. The worst thing ever happening is that the cat knocked over a stack of the temporary cardboard boxes and I lost a bunch of moths when the glass broke on one box and crushed them. |
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Post by starlightcriminal on Oct 27, 2011 10:19:07 GMT -8
My cats do not care about dead bugs. The ones I rear, that's a whole other story. Twice one has snuck in under my feet and remained hidden until I closed the door and walked away, only to come back and find a bunch of dead "cat toys" smashed into a million pieces. Too hard to resist all that fluttering I guess. My parents have several dogs though, one of which loves dead insects for some reason. She can smell them out in the yard and will find their carcasses, usually beetles but the other frequent non-insects she likes are large Florida millipedes. She tracks them down and then she proceeds to roll all over them, as though she is trying to scent herself. I've not figured out why only she does it or why she does it all, but I did see a documentary on Lemurs in Madagascar that would purposely seek out millipedes to rub all over themselves. The theory was that it may have some anti-parasitic effect but it also clearly made the Lemurs intoxicated as indicated by their bobbling and falling out of trees. They would even share the millipede with their friends. So maybe they just like getting messed up. Who knows. Anyway, strangely similar to the behavior of this dog as well. Perhaps some cats detect something desirable about dead insects that most others do not. Generally, cats have a poor sense of smell (but an excellent very sensitive taste) so it's probably something else. I lose more specimens to my own carelessness than to anything else. How many times I have slipped and torn something or broken off legs or antennae I cannot count. Someone have a technique to scold your hands when they don't do what you thought they were going to? |
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Post by starlightcriminal on Oct 27, 2011 10:26:26 GMT -8
One more thing- Eumorpha fasciatus I think occurs where you are. I found several larvae last week in my area, not last instar yet. This one is 'better' than H. lineata anyway, check around where you are on Ludwigia and you might get lucky. They like relatively moist habitats. Looks similar, but better.
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Post by jackblack on Nov 2, 2011 1:52:21 GMT -8
Comment from one reader above , doesn`t like furry animals , maybe they don`t like him as well he gives off bad vibes .
Furry animals are very sensative like some people , I had a cattle dog once , rest his poor soul if he had one , but out of every 100 people approx he met he picked the ones that didn`t like furry animals and certainly let them know with a good chomp on their ankles as they ignored him , with everyone else he was fine .
Some pets are a good judge of character.
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). My missus once dropped her car keys on some papered specimens I had left on our kitchen table...needless to say I was NOT happy...oh...and I left her in no doubt why I wasn't speaking to her!!!