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Post by Rev. Redmond Farrier on Oct 14, 2011 23:49:21 GMT -8
...and I had to leave the house to keep my cat from paying the ultimate price for the crime. I had finally gotten around to printing out some proper data labels to replace a few of the temporary ones so my Hyles lineata was on my holding board with a new label while I stepped away to grab another display that I had also printed out labels for and when I returned my cat was eating my H. lineata. This was my second favorite moth and third favorite insect in my whole collection. I haven't been this angry in years. I had to go out and sit by mv light set up for a while to cool down so that I wouldn't overreact. I realize that it isn't a high end specimen, but I have little to no interest in exotic insects. I collect local insects and this was one of the best in my eyes. This was the only one I have ever seen and I don't have high hopes to see another anytime soon.  .....................  ..................... |
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Post by nomihoudai on Oct 15, 2011 1:48:57 GMT -8
Rule #1 Never leave a drawer open when it is not within your arms reach.
Rule #2 Keep Kids,Cats and Dogs outside of the collection room.
Altough I am sure you are angry for your first caught specimen of the species you shouldn't be too worried, Hyles lineata is a real pest species in the South of US and catching a new one shouldn't be any problem at all.
R.I.P. Hyles lineata
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Post by thanos on Oct 15, 2011 1:58:01 GMT -8
Yes,in Greece it's also the commonest Sphingid, along with Macroglossum stellatarum and Agrius convolvuli  . Thanos |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2011 2:23:20 GMT -8
dont worry, these things happen, keep to Claudes rule 2 as well my kids or grandchildren are not allowed in the same ROOM as my collection, I once destoyed a set of 4 maculinea arion with a rolling moth ball that I had glued in place and came loose many years ago, it was like a strike in a bowling game.
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Post by nomihoudai on Oct 15, 2011 2:36:38 GMT -8
Thanos, you mean Hyles livornica.
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Post by wingedwishes on Oct 15, 2011 2:45:52 GMT -8
It does happen. I have a dummy set of common butterflies for my 4 year old to pin (destroy) and suprise me when I get home from work. I want to encourage her so I just could not yell at her when she shredded my male Goliath Birdwing! I do have a padlock on my cases now.
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Post by thanos on Oct 15, 2011 3:30:57 GMT -8
No Claude, I mean just what I wrote. For me (and many others - just google it-) the one occuring here is Hyles lineata livornica. The same species. Hyles livornica = Celerio lineata. For many authors is : Hyles lineata var.livornica or ssp.livornica .
They seem to me extremely identical and believe that are the same species.
Thanos
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Post by nomihoudai on Oct 15, 2011 4:30:24 GMT -8
I googled but I only came across people claiming the earth would be 6000 years old and that the earth is the center of the universe? Can I take that knowledge straight off the internet too ?
Joke aside ---> "Anna K. Hundsdoerfer, Ian J. Kitching, Michael Wink: A molecular phylogeny of the hawkmoth genus Hyles (Lepidoptera: Sphingidae, Macroglossinae), Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution 35 (2005) 442–458"
Wasn't it you that liked DNA studies so much ?
Further papers showing incompability in crossing the two species:
BENZ (Ent. Ges. Basel NF 3: 9-14, 17-20, 33-38, 1953)
FISCHER (Ent. 2. 46: 45-49, 1932)
and morphometry:
EITSCHBERGER, U. & STEINIGER, H. (1976). Die Artverschiedenheit von Hyles lineata lineata (Fabricius, 1775) und Hyles livornica livornica (Esper, 1779) (Lep. Sphingidae). Atalanta, Würzburg 7: 71--73
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Post by thanos on Oct 15, 2011 8:51:07 GMT -8
Yeap,I like them. Post me now specifically the proofs that show that lineata and livornica are different species. If you will manage it,I will accept it. And stop just posting titles of various articles just for giving the impression that you know things. I read the first article that you gave (with the DNA sequences of Hyles),but I didn't find any proof that specifically the above 2 taxa are separate species.
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Post by bluemoth on Oct 15, 2011 9:22:12 GMT -8
So sorry about your loss Redmond. I do get Hyles lineata here if you want a replacement. I do not know about the different sub species of lineata so do not know if there are any in the western US ware I am. I never hared there was sub species of lineata till I read this stream. You can PM me if you like.
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Post by nomihoudai on Oct 15, 2011 10:12:02 GMT -8
bluemoth you do not need to worry about any subspecies of Hyles lineata because there is none, the only thing that exists is stubborn egomaniacs as we have seen yet again. Furthermore Thanos I do not need to prove anything to you. The papers are in the museum library which I can access as soon of monday, of course I do not know them by heart and can't cite them now word-by-word. Nevertheless I will just safe my time and not go to the museum on monday as you never will stop being a subjective egomaniac, wether I post word-by-word quotes of the papers here or not. If you want to access the relevant information on this topic (they are in these papers, trust me) you can buy them, as the other method of asking nicely seems way over your head. Oh the irony  |
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Post by wolf on Oct 15, 2011 10:35:37 GMT -8
[/size][/quote]
someone just got owned...
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Post by thanos on Oct 15, 2011 11:05:55 GMT -8
'owned' ? - wolf,let us alone boy  . nomihoudai, the only egomaniac stubborn stuff and irony here is you,but it's just the immature of your age - we know you all. You have also a disguasting way to try to be the most 'clever' and to enforce your opinion, having the idea that your words have real scientific value,while the others tell bulls (yes also bulls the so many species that I have helped you and told you correctly, which you couldn't identify). You will change with time -I'm sure. As you don't have any proofs to show,don't drop me here titles of articles which you haven't even read and which have no relation /do not proove anything that lineata and livornica are separate species. The first article that you posted was quite general and was talking about Pliocene, etc ancestrums . Ok,and dinosaurs are from Jurasic ,eh ?And turtles have ancestrum in Jurasic ? lol (I know you like irony,so you get it). No reference at all in our 2 taxa ,not any DNA proof of their sequences that are separate species. Did you even put an eye on this article before you post the title here ? Dr.David Carter of the Natural History Museum of London (as you also like museums) includes in his nice book 'butterflies and moths' in the distribution of Hyles lineata both America and Europe. Is he wrong ? Anyway, this is my last work with you. You are not my cup of tea. I have much more important things to do than argueing here with a stubborn kid (wolf,the same for you,too. -keep being ridiculous if you like it,I will not follow you in this trash). Thanos |
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Post by wolf on Oct 15, 2011 11:28:18 GMT -8
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Post by nomihoudai on Oct 15, 2011 11:42:08 GMT -8
Did you mean Butterflies & Moths by David Carter$Frank Greenaway? A handbook which covers a wild mix of 500 species?
Are you kidding me? You give reference of a book on miscellancelous species by a guy that problably just copies his 1984 book on pest species and gives himself as reference, and put it against highly specialised papers by leading specialists (->Eitschberger)?
I do not want at all to give any negative or bad opinion about the work of David Carter but I wouldn't bet my money on his opinion about Hyles livornica.
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