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Post by lordpandarus on Sept 4, 2011 16:37:55 GMT -8
To me after all these years is still raising the forewings so there is no "kinks" at the shoulders.
This is where all the years of spreading experience comes in handy. I can avoid it in 95% of the butterflies I spread but I still screw up a few due to this problem
Butterflies prone to this are Heliconius, Ithmonids, Nymphalids such as Cethosia and Ex-pupae Papilios.
Second would be making little marks on the forewing veins if the forceps "slips"
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Post by saturniidave on Sept 4, 2011 16:55:40 GMT -8
Oddly enough this has never really been a problem for me, I have had very few butterflies do that to me. The only ones that kinked at the shoulders are ones that I think were not allowed enough time for their wings to harden properly. When I first started setting, 46 odd years ago, I did get this occasionally when I did not position the insect properly on the board, usually too much forward slope.
I don't use forceps when setting so marking with those is not a problem. I use a setting needle to move the wings and occasionally it slips and either scratches the wing or punctures it making a pinhole in the wing.
Believe it or not the hardest thing for me is getting the pin absolutely straight and perpendicular through the thorax, I still have to concentrate very hard to get this right and often it takes more than one attempt even after all these years!
Dave
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Post by lordpandarus on Sept 4, 2011 17:02:27 GMT -8
Kinked shoulders probably never happens with fresh specimens (spread just after being killed) , but it's still a common setting mistake since I see it a lot on pictures of set specimens in books and on the internet
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Post by Khalid Fadil on Sept 4, 2011 22:16:06 GMT -8
The most difficult parts for me is when the specimens are small as well as when the hindwings come up above the forewings. There's always some damage involved when it comes to these situations... Especially with the lousy homemade tools I have. Except for the pins of course, Dave... ;D They're nowhere near lousy!
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Post by jamesd on Sept 5, 2011 4:16:29 GMT -8
The problems I have:
*the hind wings want to go above the front wings
*the pin used for spreading wings, rips the wing
*as soon as a pin is placed through the thorax, the wings mysteriously decide to hang downwards instead of up, making it hard to place on the board
*having only 2 hands, and ones that aren't steady.
For some reason I get the most satisfaction when I spread the front wings. I could could say it feels like sitting in the car for hours and then finally standing up and stretching your legs.
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Post by bobw on Sept 5, 2011 6:11:23 GMT -8
I have to agree with Dave. I hate seeing collections where the pins are at different angles, and I have all sorts of trouble getting them in perpendicular. Sometimes I'll take the pin out and try again several times before I get it straight, then you can end up with a hole through the thorax the size of the channel tunnel! This often takes me 5 minutes - almost as long as it takes to set the bug.
Also, in general I find it hard to get anything relaxed enough to set successfully; if I can summon up enough strength to get one side positioned without the needle ripping through the costal vein, it springs back down again as soon as I push the other side up, no matter how many pins I use. This obviously applies mainly to bugs with strong wing muscles like Charaxinae and Castniidae. And yes - I've read all the threads about relaxing and tried all the techniques, but nothing seems to get such bugs relaxed enough to set successfully.
Bob
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Post by prillbug2 on Sept 5, 2011 6:22:07 GMT -8
If the wings start to kink up, I spread it upside on a flat board. For smaller specimens, the board groove has to be thin enough to keep the body from swinging, plus I place a pin at the base of the abdomen. That's why I make all of my boards, I can customize them to whatever I want to spread, including micro-moths. The ones that are made in the factories aren't good enough for me, because they don't fit all of the possibilities. Very simple to make. Just take a piece of wood siding, or balsa wood, cut it into twelve inch boards, take two boards cut them into one by two inch high baseboards, and nail the siding onto the boards, or glue the balsa wood onto the baseboards with wood glue, then use either polyethylene foam or cork for the grooves. Sometimes I nestle them together, by having five or six spreading boards all in one unit. Saves a heck of a lot of time, and a lot of space. Glue a number of microscope slides together and use those to anchor the wings down. For pinning, I don't use the spreading strips, I cut two strips of cardboard one thin for the antemedial area of the wing, and one wider for the outer area of the wing, and pin them on, which makes the spread very tight. It's always worked for me. As for relaxing specimens, I use a wetter method, and keep the insects in the envelope., which acts like a little micro-relaxing chamber. Mine are perfectly relaxed in about twelve to 24 hours, and that even includes field collected specimens.
Jeff Prill
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Post by Khalid Fadil on Sept 5, 2011 7:24:31 GMT -8
I have to agree with Dave. I hate seeing collections where the pins are at different angles, and I have all sorts of trouble getting them in perpendicular. Sometimes I'll take the pin out and try again several times before I get it straight, then you can end up with a hole through the thorax the size of the channel tunnel! This often takes me 5 minutes - almost as long as it takes to set the bug. Also, in general I find it hard to get anything relaxed enough to set successfully; if I can summon up enough strength to get one side positioned without the needle ripping through the costal vein, it springs back down again as soon as I push the other side up, no matter how many pins I use. This obviously applies mainly to bugs with strong wing muscles like Charaxinae and Castniidae. And yes - I've read all the threads about relaxing and tried all the techniques, but nothing seems to get such bugs relaxed enough to set successfully. Bob Wrap them in a cloth that's dripping wet for a week. That should work. ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by nomihoudai on Sept 5, 2011 8:44:11 GMT -8
The shoulders in Arhopala sp., definately the shoulders of these. I have so far never managed to get them propper but I think it is anatomically impossible.
Besides that: catching the butterfly
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Post by lordpandarus on Sept 5, 2011 10:10:43 GMT -8
Not ripping the hindwing in Ancyluris sp
In general I avoid very small species (smaller than Callicore or Perisama)
That's why I don't collect Lycaenids and Riodinidae in general, except the largest species
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Post by lordpandarus on Sept 5, 2011 10:23:35 GMT -8
Also, in general I find it hard to get anything relaxed enough to set successfully; In general It's almost impossible to get the specimens as supple as freshly caught. My current technique for opening the wings and avoid shouldering is to use the back of my thumb nail (which I let grow a bit if I know I will be spreading butterflies) and wedge it at the point of the wing insertion to open them prior to placing the specimen on the setting board |
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Post by prillbug2 on Sept 5, 2011 11:10:54 GMT -8
I never have any problems.
Jeff Prill
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Post by entoman on Sept 5, 2011 12:27:34 GMT -8
Spreading small specimens used to be the most difficult situation for me. However, I have found small specimens to be much easier to spread now that I am in possession of an adjustable spreading board. However, word of advice: don't attempt to spread a butterfly after consuming large quantities of caffeine; your hands will be very unsteady and you may ruin the specimen (as I almost did once). I agree that it is easier to spread fresh specimens than specimens that have been dried and relaxed; this is why I keep all of my specimens frozen till I spread them. The most difficult problem I have to overcome though when spreading Lepidopterans, are specimens whose wings are oriented downwards rather than upwards (as in most moths, and the occasional, very annoying butterfly). Most of my failures have been with such specimens.
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Post by starlightcriminal on Sept 7, 2011 13:06:10 GMT -8
I too find find it challenging to get the pin into a small 'inverted' butterfly or moth. Once I get the pin in, it's not so bad, although I have encountered all of the problems listed above at one point or another... except for Jeff's.
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