H cecropia x H columbia

[myotis]

I had a female H cecropia outside overnight and in the morning she was paired up with a much smaller male. After a closer look, I am sure he is a H columbia although I have never seen them or heard of them being found in this area. She has laid eggs. Has anyone had any experience with these? What is the outcome? Any input would be appreciated.

[wingedwishes]

The awesome Bill Oehlke has an article on his website where he depicts this very situation:

www.silkmoths.bizland.com/zcolmoth.htm

[obewan]

Actually had the same thing...but the F cecropia wouldn't lay...has been in the 50's overnight!
obe

[oehlkew]

Hyalophora columbia columbia females call at dawn and that is when males of that species are active.
Female cecropia, here on PEI, usually call at dusk, then call again around midnight, and then if still not paired, they will also call at dawn.
The pheromones of all the Hyalophora are either the same or similar enough that all will pair readily and you can ge many interesting and beautiful hybrids.
In most cases (except euryalis x columbia gloveri) the hybrid females are barren (do not carry any developed eggs).
Hyalophora columbia columbia fly in southern portions of Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick and throughout
Nova Scotia and PEI, Canada. The also fly in northern portions of most US border states due south of those Canadian provinces.
In the Maritime Provinces we occasionally see naturally occuring hybrid males and females at our lights.
I have read that the hybrid males (columbia x cecropia) are sexually viable, and I have had eggs hatch from such back crosses, but larvae seemed especially prone to disease.
If you let us know where you are located, it would be nice to know columbia are flying in that area. If you are south of the ranges I have mentioned, you probably had a columbia that someone released or one which escaped, or you had something else.
Hybrid larvae (females) get very big, almost as big as cecropia, but they have the colouration of columbia. The hybrid males (larvae and moths) are more intermediate in size.

Bill Oehlke

[myotis]

Hi Bill,
Thanks for the insight. I am located near the Taylors Falls (MN)/ St.Croix Falls (WI) area around 45 min north of the Twin Cities. I know that I have seen maps that have them documented about 60 miles NW of here and know that they can be found in far northern MN. But I have never seen anything that has shown them being around this area. There are small wetland areas with tamarack stands around so I suppose anything is possible. Maybe I'll have to see if I can obtain a female H. columbia next year and see what happens.
Kevin

[oehlkew]

Hi,
Last night I was with a fellow collector/friend, Derek Bridgehouse, in Malay Falls, Nova Scotia.
Temperatures dropped to 7 C or 44-45F.
We have been having an exceptionally cold, wet spring in Atlantic Canada.
My friend Derek has a keen interest in Hyalophora species. He had earlier eclosions of female Hyalophora columbia and he kept the adult females refrigerated for approximately two weeks so he would have them live to call in male columbia for our planned trip to Malay Falls.
Derek also had a refrigerated female cecropia.
Wild male cecropia began responding to the female cecropia shortly after 9:30 pm and were showing up almost to when we retired near midnight.
The area has very healthy luna, rubicunda, polyphemus populations as well as the two Hyalophora species. We have been making annual trips to this location i nlate June for the last 13-14 years. This year we saw no luna or polyphemus. I think it was just too cold. A few rubicunda males showed up at the lights and there was one male each of the following Sphingidae:
Ceratomia undulosa, Lapara coniferarum, Paonias excaecata, and
Pachysphinx modesta. Usually we see those species and lots of
Sphinx kalmiae, Sphinx poecila, Darapsa choerilus, and sometimes
Sphinx drupiferarum males and females. I guess it was too cold for them too this Friday night.
We arose just prior to 4:00 am to check the lights and the calling females which were in cages inaccessible to males.
Already at the lights were two male columbia and six to eight additional male columbia flew in between 4:00 and 5:30 am
when we went back to bed.
Male columbia are seldom seen in collections because they are seldom seen at lights. The calling time of the females is at dawn.
Females do come to lights, but not as frequently as females of some other Saturniidae species.
One of the female columbia that had been refrigerated for approximately two weeks was calling. We do not know if the male columbia were responding to her or to the female cecropia which was also calling.
I started going to Malay Falls for the specific reason of getting columbia stock for breeding. A couple of years later I was surprised to find there are local populations right here on PEI.
Now I just go mostly for the friendship, and of course to get some eggs of various Saturniidae and Sphingidae species which are usually plentiful.
When I had enquired about Saturniidae on PEI many years ago at the university, there were no records at UPEI for columbia, so I had just assumed they were not here.
I write this extensive note for several reasons:
1) there are often undocumented species present in an area, especially an area that is not well collected. Species such as columbia, where males have an "unusual" flight time, often go undetected.
2) unmated female columbia and cecropia often go much longer than females of other species before dumping unfertilized eggs.
I obtained two pairings this year, one with a five day old non-refrigereated female and one with a four day old non-refrigerated female. Althought they were non-refirigerated, they might as well have been as the outside night and dawn temperatures were in the 40's F.
3) refrigerating females can greatly increase their lifespan and does seem to impede their ability to call once they have been "warmed" or are at least exposed to temps above 45 F.
4) Male cecropia and columbia will respond to calling females at temps as low as 44-45 F.

One year in Malay Falls we must have hit a peak flight as we save over fifty male columbia at dawn at our light stand where we had caged females, inaccessable to the males. Almost always the males were called in by the pheromone, but when they got close to the females, the attraction to the lights was even stronger and they ended up on the sheets.

I suspect if you take female columbia to the same area next year, you will be pleasantly surprised to see male columbia arriving near dawn. It is interesting to watch them without the benefit of artificial lights as you can see how flight pattern changes as they hone in on the females. There is enough natural light at dawn to see this. I have them recorded in Lake of the Woods County and Beltrami County so Chisago County is a bit of a range extension,
but not an unlikely one. They like cooler weather.
They are reported in most of the northern Wisconsin counties and as far south as Marathon County which is almost due east of you.

Please send me a personal message or regualr email with full name and date so I can credit your documentation.

Bill Oehlke

PS. The smaller males are especially eager to mate and coupling usually occurs within just a few seconds of first contact. They usually remain coupled until about 9:00-10:00 pm of same night.

Best of luck with your hybrids.