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Post by exoticimports on Feb 11, 2022 6:15:27 GMT -8
Vernon's accumulation of a vast variety of orders has me wondering: should I keep "everything" for future researchers? I don't mean everything. The world doesn't need another Actias luna. But 95% of what comes to the lights is outside my focus, or of interest to me. Orthoptera, Neuroptera, Diptera, and micro Leps. It's a nightly event I think: "hey that's cool never seen one of those before. But it's not that cool that I'm going to take it and set it." After all, I have hundreds of papered micros and other orders that are 40+ years old. Nobody at any institute is going to set them all. But I'm wondering if, when I see something unique to me, if I should just stick it on a pin and retain it. Input? Chuck
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Post by vabrou on Feb 11, 2022 7:58:07 GMT -8
Chuck, Yes Keep all that you can handle. For decades I was sorry I didn't keep all I could possibly handle when I was younger. But, saying that, you may turn into some collecting fanatic as myself. Fellow entomologists ask me how did I discover over 400 species of moths new to science. Easy answer, spread a thousand specimens of a particular species, then take a closer look at them. There you will discover there are in fact a handful of different species among the lot. By the way, that 400 new species number is a lowball number as I stopped counting how many new species we have discovered about 15 years ago. But my main purpose was a lifetime project pointing out the errors published by our biggest names in entomological history. And I used real true wild captured specimens to prove what I say, not statistical hocus pocus to prove a opinion theory. I am not against statistics, In fact my only A(s) in college were in math and in particular statistical classes I was forced to take. An I have used statistics daily in nearly two decades of daily employment in Quality Assurance Engineering. Here is another example of where I collected species of the marsh habitat genus 'Doryodes'. Over the past 51 years (1969-2020), using self-designed automatic-capture ultraviolet light traps we collected and retained over 400 examples of Doryodes adults from across the state of Louisiana. As a result, there were 4 species among this half century sample, three of which were species new to science. www.academia.edu/45000725/THE_GENUS_DORYODES_GUEN%C3%89E_1857_LEPIDOPTERA_EREBIDAE_IN_LOUISIANA
But I began this fanaticism of volume collecting in the very early 1970s when I began counting hawkmoths for what turned into a 30-year study on the Sphingidae of Louisiana, USA. I saw in the very first MONA fascicle there was a huge amount of false statement and fake information (unsubstantiated opinions) stated as fact. As decades past I reviewed all sphingid literature goin back to the Civil War period, I discovered every one of these noted authors stated much of the very same things, just unsubstantiated opinions. Here is a link to a species account I published in 2002 on the well known polyphemus moth in Louisiana. www.lsuinsects.org/people/vernonbrou/pdf/2002.%2055.%20Voltinism%20of%20Antheraea%20polyphemus%20%28Cramer%29%20%28Satur.pdfEven in our most prestigious Moths of North America series (MONA), Ferguson (1972) stated of polyphemus, "As far south as Florida, there still seems to be only two broods ... February to April ... October to December." The question then becomes, to which brood do the May, June, July, August, and September specimens belong. Covell (1984), stated polyphemus has 2 broods, April and September, without further explanation. I collected 1,509 wild adults in Louisiana; polyphemus actually has five annual broods at approximately 47-day intervals beginning with the first brood peaking about mid-March. For attention to this post here is one of several drawers I have 0f Annea andri males on left, females on right I discovered that the number of brood in our scientific literature is incorrect by the 'experts'. For A. andri, Klots stated this species has two broods. But I collected hundreds and discovered it has 5 annual broods in Louisiana. And I have addressed more than 1,000 species among the 438 research manuscripts published so far. Here is another example (one of several hundreds) of what I do with all of those duplicate captures. www.academia.edu/2588690/The_genus_Argyrostrotis_H%C3%BCbner_1821_Lepidoptera_Erebidae_in_Louisiana
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Post by jhyatt on Feb 11, 2022 10:21:29 GMT -8
Vernon,
Mention of your Doryodes paper prompts me to say that Lance Durden and I have been accumulating all the Doryodes we find in light traps on Sapelo Island, GA, for several years. With some problematical genera, a series can never be too long!
Another genus that seems to always cry for more material is Donacaula. Despite a fairly recently published revision of the genus, looking at the moths makes me wonder what else might be hidden in there. Have you paid much attention to Donacaula in Louisiana?
Regards, jh
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Post by vabrou on Feb 11, 2022 10:59:10 GMT -8
John, there are still more undescribed Doryodes species out there in other Gulf States. More recently, two more species have been described I think from Florida, can't find that publication at the moment. And yes I have some Donacula, but I have not worked on them. Probably won't get to work on them either as I currently have ~600 manuscripts in various stages of completeness sitting here now. Last year we unplugged 6 of the 7 light traps we have operated here at our home for the past 40years. Getting too old, and too may medical maladies.
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Post by jhyatt on Feb 12, 2022 15:34:53 GMT -8
Vernon,
Sadly, one can't ever do everything one would like to accomplish. At my present age, I'm doing less and less field work, and spending more time on preparing old material that's been if my freezer for ages - so I know what you mean! jh
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Post by exoticimports on Feb 12, 2022 21:32:25 GMT -8
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Post by jhyatt on Feb 13, 2022 7:26:36 GMT -8
Good suggestion, Chuck - but I'm not sure it would work in my favorite southern coastal skipper swamps... jh
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Post by exoticimports on Feb 13, 2022 11:09:40 GMT -8
Good suggestion, Chuck - but I'm not sure it would work in my favorite southern coastal skipper swamps... jh I've taken several Leps from boats. How bout one of these? [stock photo]
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Post by bandrow on Feb 13, 2022 11:16:33 GMT -8
Greetings,
I think the decision to "keep everything" comes down to practicality: how much time does one have to process bycatch specimens not intended for one's own immediate collection; what resources are available (drawers, trays, pins, etc.); whether an outlet for the specimens is available, etc.
I hope Jhyatt can vouch for the value of having an "outlet" for bycatch, as he and his colleagues have been sending me light trap residues from their moth survey on Sapelo Island, Georgia for a number of years now. These residues were destined for the trash heap before I came begging, and in the years since, they've become the invaluable core of a beetle survey for the island. I've documented nearly 1,000 species for the island, with hundreds more yet to be determined from difficult families (Staphylinidae, Curculionidae, etc.) or messy genera (Melanotus, Hymenorus, Neoporus, etc.). And of course, these are just the species that are nocturnal and attracted to light. Other trapping methods would surely shoot the numbers much higher.
And John, despite the appearance of procrastination, the beetle project is progressing nicely - I've finally processed all the residues in my freezer, and just need to prepare the specimens from a few samples. While I am very grateful for the generosity of the "Sapelo Guys", receiving others' bycatch can become a slippery slope as well, as projects like this, done without funding on free time, can get out of control, but well worth the effort to eventually accomplish!
Cheers! Bandrow
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Post by mothman55 on Feb 13, 2022 13:45:21 GMT -8
Vernon, I have to wonder how you store such a massive collection. I visited you about 30+ years ago and you had everything in a separate air-conditioned trailer. Surely your collection has outgrown that space? I know you have donated thousands of specimens over the years, but your personal collection must be huge and take up a lot of square footage.
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Post by exoticimports on Feb 13, 2022 14:34:29 GMT -8
Greetings, I hope Jhyatt can vouch for the value of having an "outlet" for bycatch, Cheers! Bandrow How does one find such outlet for bycatch? Isn't that one of the potential purposes for this forum? Who's looking for bycatch, and what type? What's better- pinned but not set or papered (note: papered could add up in cost fast.) Now, I've asked for Papilio glaucus and have been blessed with a few members catching them for me. Likewise, 58Chevy wanted some Arctiidae which, it turns out, are almost a nuisance here so it was easy to grab a dozen one night. The only way I knew they might be of interest is he'd posted a photo of a prized specimen and I wrote him that I can catch dozens a night. LepSoc has "wanted" ads for specimens for study; I guess I'm surprised nobody has chimed in here. Or, for the most part, asked for specimens. OK, I owe Mr. Hyatt some Lycaenidae. And Bandrow, you and Carnegie have got some off me, I'd have to assume (all these years later) you noted what I was working on and asked. It's odd I guess that the Tiger Beetle guys don't ask us to grab some from our region, or whatever. I don't even take beetles except cerambycidae, buprestidae, and scarabidae; I take almost no ichneumonidae, no flies, no wasps or bees, and few sawflies. Not that I couldn't with about zero trouble. John mentioned Doryodes, I have no idea what those are. A couple years ago Leroy and other were all nutso about some other stupid looking moths, and lo and behold I get a number of species here. I'd be happy to grab whatever I get here, bycatch (i.e., anything except nice Leps LOL) or other. Maybe we need a Bycatch Thread: post what miscellaneous stuff you want en masse. Why don't the pros / institutions ask here? Do they not want/ have time to sort and curate? Chuck
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Post by vabrou on Feb 13, 2022 15:36:28 GMT -8
Will address 'bycatch' later, as I have published several studies mentioning bycatch details. But to answer storage issues, the one problem I was always presented with over the past half century was where do I put all these specimens. Well, all along I have annually donated some of my duplicates while slowly increasing the number of Cornell drawers and cabinets to hold them. Specimens must be kept in darkened areas, thus cabinets with doors. I self-funded all my activities, but I had no source of funds or rich relatives, so I created and designed an improved method to fabricate Cornell size glass-top drawers. Then I designed 12-drawer and 25-drawer cabinets to put the drawers in. I published How-to-DIY both wooden Cornell drawers and wooden cabinets many decades ago. So, over the years, I also purchased numerous hundreds of used Cornell drawers, and I purchased a few collections from people, even once buying a collection of tropical butterflies from the wife of a medical doctor who committed suicide by drinking cyanide while his wife went to the grocery store. I had an even bigger problem as I also accumulated a world collection of Sphingidae (around 40,000 adults (800+ species) from 120 countries of the world. In the late 80s I sold that collection for money to live on for three years so I could obtain a 2nd degree, as the oil industry in the US took it's last breath in 1986. When that collection was sold, so too did a few hundred hundred Cornell drawers. That collection now resides with an additional 103,814 lepidoptera specimens donated by me at the McGuire Center in Gainesville, Florida. Altogether, there are about 50,000 sphingidae with my labels on them at the McGuire Center. But I would buy enough lumber to make batches of 50-100 drawers every few years, and of course I accumulated a shop full of quality woodworking tools and supplies. During my lifetime, I self taught myself how to do quality woodworking, quality sheet metal work, and I worked as a specialty welder and Quality Assurance welding engineer. Now my donations weren't made because I was just a nice guy. In fact, my first donation was 1,110 specimens made in 1971 to the Louisiana State Arthropod Museum (LSAM), and annually for much of the past half century to many museums. My largest annual donation was 127,283 specimens in 2007 to the LSAM. All along I donated these specimens to numerous major Museums in the USA, and I was able to use them as tax deductions, as these qualified as reducing my tax burden by 50% annually. Though I have lost my record for 17 donations, those appraisals I do currently have involve specimens valued at $599,149.86. I also exchanged and sold an additional 700,000 Louisiana insects to collectors, researchers and museums out of the USA. So now you know how I handled the great volume of duplicates. Currently I have 662 Cornell drawers containing ~500,000 specimens, mostly Louisiana lepidoptera. Also, I have a Collection of world Eudocima (approx. 10,000 + specimens) 42 species from 42 countries of the world and many island locations. My collection is primarily stored in a environmentally controlled mobile home here on my property though I have somewhat taken over two rooms in our home for a work area and entomological library. I do not plan on increasing the size of my collection as I have no room for further expansion. Here is a handy photo of my collection storage.
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Post by vabrou on Feb 13, 2022 17:40:09 GMT -8
Here is a link of a publication I recently did involved running 162 self-designed automatic-capture insect traps (2018-2020) in a 26-month long clearwing moth survey in NW Louisiana. In this study we captured numerous hundreds to thousands of various insects in our sesiid-lure traps which were not clearwing moths. I have run these same traps for about 47 years in Louisiana. But during this particular study we captured an unusually large quantity of insects which were not sesiids, but apparently attracted to the sesiid lures. Sometimes I found over 40 assorted moths each month which were not sesiids in a single trap. While I encountered similar captures over decades, in this study, we documented in detail some of these unexpected bycatch captures. Here is the freely accessible link to a pdf publication of one of those bycatch species. www.academia.edu/44332876/PSEUDOTHYRIS_SEPULCHRALIS_BOISDUVAL_1832_LEPIDOPTERA_THYRIDIDAE_IN_LOUISIANAHere e.g. is a clearwing moth trap which capture 42 insects including hymenoptera, lepidoptera of many families, but not a single clearwing moth. Let me be clear, despite successfully processing a large number of bycatch specimens of various insects, 99.9999% of my duplicates (including bycatch) was discarded over the decades. Though hundreds of thousands of these discards were documented in my records for use in my phenograms and publications. After all what can one do with hundreds of thousands of armyworm moths, or broken and damaged species of wanted species. One has to have a special commitment to create these hundreds of traps that actually worked, and purchase a piece of property to operate them on, and to religiously spend the hours every day for much of a half century to tend to them and keep them running (constant maintenance was a necessary headache). I had to always keep a considerable volume of replacement bulbs and lamps, all types of electrical component, roll of various purpose wires, numerous sheets of galvanized sheet metal, wood of all descriptions, painting was a common occurrence. I found that by having a 4' box and pan sheet metal brake, I was able to produce all necessary quality sheet metal components.
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