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Post by beetlehorn on May 8, 2011 18:44:50 GMT -8
It has always been a dream of mine to be able to go collecting in far away distant locations such as Peru, Bolivia, Malaysia, Africa, and even the far East of Asia. Since my time and money will only allow this on a very rare occasion, I as many others here must rely on insect dealers to get a nice collection of foreign material. Which brings me to an interesting point of discussion in regards to the accuracy of collecting data that comes with each specimen. For example I recently got a few specimens from a US dealer, and the typical data included was very general, rather vague, and incomplete. A South American specimen would come with the following data: (Dox. agathina Satipo Peru Oct. 2009). No exact date, no exact location, no info regarding weather or habitat conditions, and no idea as to the collectors name. I sometimes wonder if the data is just some ambiguous info scribbled on the envelope to half-heartedly appease the collector. Sometimes a specimen will come with no data at all, which virtually makes the specimen worthless scientifically speaking. Anyone else ever feel this frustration? Tom
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Post by Khalid Fadil on May 8, 2011 22:41:41 GMT -8
Tell me 'bout it... The bug dealers in Malaysia always sell me data-less specimens! The only dealers which provide me with specimens with data are the Orang Asli. If such 'down to Earth' people can do it, why can't those bigger more successful dealers do it? Lazy...
I still buy from them anyway because they sometimes have some rarities.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2011 20:42:03 GMT -8
Yep Tom, I feel it. There are issues like exact location revealing to others a place it flies. Collectors who gather for multiple dealers and money all play a big part.
I guess if one is to acquire foreign material w/o actually going there, the price one pays is less-than-ideal data. On the other hand, that is why our personal collections are so important. I have to admit that I would cherish having a morpho whatever even if it came with generic data. Otherwise, I'd be limited to viewing pics in books and pics from others fortunate enough to have made the trips.
I look at it like this. I do the best I can with what is offered and hope for the best. It is one of the many frstrating facets of this hobby.
It is a highly competative field where way too many are focused on being THE ones to have captured the bugs. Money and greed trump scientific data in this scenario....sadly.
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Post by wollastoni on May 9, 2011 22:30:57 GMT -8
Agree with Khalid, laziness plays a big role.
The other problem is that local dealers do not understand why we want collecting data, as in their culture butterfly collecting is only for decorative purpose.
Each time, I meet a local dealer, I say "next time I double the price if collecting data are written"... if all of us do it, it may change things in the future.
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Post by Khalid Fadil on May 10, 2011 0:52:27 GMT -8
I just got back from shopping at a local bug dealer. Some really nice specimens! But... No data... A few envelopes have the location stamped on, but that's it...
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Post by nomihoudai on May 10, 2011 11:03:15 GMT -8
The question is: What are you willing to pay for propper data? I have the fear that the constant seeking of cheaper and cheaper specimens is taking a bad turn on the data issue... of course you can get wonderful leps from a scientifically knowledgable person that went to visit to these places, but are you willing to pay what this costs ? My 2 cents on the topic, if you disagree with it please let me know, overall this is a discussion board so we should discuss opinions  |
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Post by jshuey on May 11, 2011 9:31:49 GMT -8
Coincidentally – there are adds right now in the LEPIDOPTERA classifieds from JUANJO RAMIREZ (Hesperiidae Mixed, Riodinidae Mixed), Juan can provide very precise locality info. He provides lat / long - and the elevation and habitat can be pulled off of Google Earth (typically, around 100m in Amazon rainforest). His dates are generally by month…
And if you purchase bulk mixed lots of butterflies – his prices as good as they get for Peru ….
Make sure he has data recorded before you purchase. In the old forum, you can see my comments about him as a dealer..., slow but seemingly reliable...
John
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blasto
Junior Member
Posts: 32
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Post by blasto on May 11, 2011 13:23:17 GMT -8
Yes, I too have dealings to this frustration and can't seem to find the solution to this annoying problem. As far as my philosophies go as to the collection data, collection data is just as important as the specimen itself. Without the properly recorded data, your specimen is no different than a decorative ornament to be hung on the wall. Then why put pin through your precious art pretending to be for scientific studies? Unless this is okay with you and is what your looking for, we really should start taking collection data more seriously. I think this problem is not being resolved b/c most of us collectors don¡¯t consider collection data to be that important. We are only caught up and focused in buying good quality specimens(A1 or A-).
Oh, how about those hand written datas? Some of those writing are so unlegible, sometimes I wonder if it¡¯s English.
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