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Post by papiliotheona on Jun 20, 2021 15:40:07 GMT -8
it wasn't white Westerners clear-cutting the rainforests in tropical countries for oil palm plantations, cattle fields, or the international lumber market. To be transparent and open on all issues, the oil plantations, cattle fields, and lumber exist largely to provide for "white men"- Americans, Europeans, and European-descent foreign markets in other countries. That has changed, but only recently, to include the Chinese, some rich Africans and rich Asians. The foreign leadership and even the villagers are only responding to a market economy- a Western market economy. Trade trees for outboards. We do the same in USA. Scientific papers that jump on the trendy PC bandwagon serve two purposes: first, to gain clout amongst a strong, and growing stronger, group. Second, and related, to ensure the author recognition and revenue. So he can buy lumber and an outboard too. And, in being PC, oft-antisocial scientists gain friends. In fact, I'm surprised we don't see more papers like these from Coleopterists The biggest problem is that the environmental (mis)management, like almost everything else, is a racket. A revenue racket. The US president can put the brakes on drugs, pollution, and ecological destruction in Brazil by lifting the phone and calling INDOPACOM. Or, a bit slower, he could leverage trade to do the same thing. But nothing happens. Status quo wins. Truly, the smart person jumps on the bandwagon. You've got 80 years here, might as well enjoy it. It's our descendants that will suffer, but oh well. Chuck Chuck, I think the Asian and specifically Chinese market eats up a whole lot more share of burgeoning demand than the "white" West, and our all-benevolent PC overlords have deemed that any criticism of China, and the PRC/CCP regime in particular, is racism that will get you canceled or un-personed (it's funny that criticism of Taiwan is never "racist", but I digress). Blaming Western markets for dysfunction and sometimes outright evil in the developing world gets to be a copout after a while. If there was no market at all for lumber would Brazilians be paragons of the Amazon? Would Indonesians prioritize the orangutan if there was no need for palm oil--or, would they continue to rape their rainforest for other reasons? We always hear how American appetite for drugs and cheap services is why Mexico is such a violent, awful place. I don't recall Americans being a thing when the Aztecs were ripping out each other's hearts and piling up mountains of their human sacrifice victims. Drug trafficking or not, drug legalization or not--Mexico has a whole lot of deep, fundamental issues that our internal demands and needs won't touch. Or, do we really, magically believe that completely sanctioned and permitted cartels that could openly sell any kinds of drugs they wanted on American shelves* would suddenly become nice, tolerant people? The same goes for Russia--would the world's biggest country, singlehandedly taking up half of the massive continent of Asia and possessing the greatest share of its oil, natural gas, and nuclear weapons be a bastion of democracy and a free market if the West wasn't so enslaved to its fossil fuels? Russia and the other great Asian powers have had a culture of emperor-worship and totalitarian authority going back for millennia. Japan and South Korea aren't extreme dictatorships today only because of the U.S. victory and occupation. People have free will. Everyone knows right and wrong, everyone can decide how they want their culture to be like for better or for worse. I'm not saying you, personally are saying this--but to me it insults the humanity of indigenous people/people from the third world when we say they are powerless in the face of choices of Western powers. *I'm not at all saying the war on drugs is right, or has worked. I'm saying that Mexico's problem with (narco-) warlords and savage lawlessness goes way beyond drugs and our craving for them.
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Post by papiliotheona on Jun 10, 2021 7:47:51 GMT -8
A lot of people think it is extirpated--possibly from climate change or habitat modification, possibly simply from being bred out of existence by the omnipresent P. polyxenes asterius.
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Post by papiliotheona on Jun 9, 2021 9:39:28 GMT -8
I get it, conservation is a bad thing. And then we wonder why collectors get a bad rap from the general public... John For the life of me, I cannot fathom how here, a forum inundated with the scientifically minded, there prevails tendencies to over-react and twist others' posts to infer some far-reaching point. That's why I hate Twitter- everyone just has to post something, and half the time it's fraudulent, intentional manipulation of a prior statement. One would hope we'd be above that, but time and time again, it's been disproven. Not to harp a point, but show me where I said conservation is a bad thing. Perhaps I misread my own post (and some are a bit tongue in cheek) however, arguably all would be effective- in fact, more effective than what is being done now, by and large. Not to discredit those who do what they can. The fact remains though that a bounty on politicians forcing logging in the Brazilian rainforest would be far more effective than waggling on about the rare papilio we know are there. And, if you want to save pangolins, three conventional Tomahawks into personal compounds in China and/or Malaysia would work wonders. The fact is that deforestation is the #1 threat vector to most wildlife, including Papilio. Yet somehow, nobody cares, and no government is willing to do anything about it. The general public is enamoured with hit pieces in NatGeo that tug on their heartstrings, but doesn't care about deforestation so long as they get their palm oil and cheap lumber. Some of the cited papers probably are valid, and useful. However, some are narrow-minded, like worrying about a cut when you're having a heart attack. Global warming harming a birdwing on Kinabalu? How about the massive, illegal clearcut logging on Sabah? It's time we call a spade a spade, and focus on where the most significant problems are. Until we do, and while we're studying and reporting on lesser problems, it's only going to get worse. Chuck A thousand "amens" to that, Chuck. I am sick and tired of the official state religion of the day--PCism, and its close cousins of critical race theory and environmentalist hypocrisy. The last time I checked, it wasn't white Westerners clear-cutting the rainforests in tropical countries for oil palm plantations, cattle fields, or the international lumber market. I refuse to consider myself the R-word ("racist"--which apparently in 2021 is worse than being a serial killer or rapist or pedophile) because I think it's the epitome of selfishness for people who can't afford to feed themselves without destroying the world around them to continue to breed (outside of carrying capacity). The Western left screams and hollers about the (relatively trivial compared to narcotics, etc.) international trade in prized butterfly species (whether or not they are threatened even remotely) and refuses to say one single cross word about the leadership of Indonesia, Brazil, China, etc. You get canceled if you do in fact. Screw that. We are supposed to be real men here and capable of calling a spade a spade.
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Post by papiliotheona on Jun 9, 2021 9:29:51 GMT -8
I get it, conservation is a bad thing. And then we wonder why collectors get a bad rap from the general public... John I don't recall a single big-name conservationist sticking up for citizen collecting and the priceless role it plays in world science--and can think of tons of instances of the opposite. I can't believe all these experts "don't know better"--they are making a stand for their preferred ideology.
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Post by papiliotheona on Jun 8, 2021 7:35:10 GMT -8
He has a point. The greatest threat to homerus is deforestation. And I’m guessing the number of British swallowtails threatened be sea rise is about six. Six individuals. Chuck I agree with the first point but the comment about the British swallowtail is absolutely wrong. Unlike P. machaon in Europe, subspecies britannicus is only found in small areas of the Norfolk Fens and their marshy habitat is at sea level. Increases in sea level bring salt into the marshes, and plants die as a result. If their host plants or nectar plants all die, so will the subspecies. Adam. Yet ssp. britannicus is protected from COLLECTING in England. Because, some kid with a net controls the climate, right? Conservationists and the regimes they create are steaming piles of BS and hypocrisy through and through.
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Post by papiliotheona on Jun 7, 2021 15:49:12 GMT -8
I am legitimately curious Adam--will this conference offer something OTHER than anti-collecting demagoguery?
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Post by papiliotheona on May 29, 2021 21:54:41 GMT -8
The one time I tried euryalus they were a nightmare for me. IMO, just about all the big silkmoths with the possible exception of A. luna are much harder than most butterfly larvae, even many of the Papilio.
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Post by papiliotheona on May 29, 2021 21:52:31 GMT -8
I talk to Charlie sometimes. Ask him for a pic, I'm sure he would provide one.
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Post by papiliotheona on May 29, 2021 21:50:35 GMT -8
Not a moth-er, but I might suggest Barton Flats (6100') or Wildhorse Meadow (8500') in the high San Bernardino Mtns.
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Post by papiliotheona on May 23, 2021 9:10:55 GMT -8
Not a Cecropia, but I have a male and female each of SE AZ P. multicaudata that tip to tip like that are 7" across.
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Post by papiliotheona on May 21, 2021 21:22:53 GMT -8
P. sennae is attracted to anything red. I've seen them bump into stop signs and car taillights. They like Turk's Cap flowers (red) and red hibiscus. Maybe placing a red object on the ground or using a red flag would make them easier to catch. I've caught lots of them on Turk's Cap. Just stand nearby and wait for it to feed. It will usually stay there long enough for you to make the capture. Some swallowtails are like this too, I have seen P. eurymedon and zelicaon quite smitten with road signs.
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Post by papiliotheona on May 21, 2021 21:09:17 GMT -8
Here are mine, and also some commentary on some of the other common suggestions that came up in this thread. Note that I won't really count wary species that are readily reared such as Megathymus sp. and Phoebis sennae (although honestly, I don't find the latter that hard). Some of the Agathymus also like A. neumoegeni and alliae are well nigh impossible but generally those are reared, not pursued with a net. Some of them you need a live female to rear from generally so there is no way around netting.
I don't find sennae all that challenging (albeit my marcellina in the west might be more laid-back than eubule in the SE, I don't know). J. nigrosuffusa is a pain, but far from the worst. O. chryxus complex such as ivallda are more difficult in terms of access than actual netting (males are kind of wary but stick around in a small area on a peak--females are tougher). E. magdalena isn't hard if you are in the right place of the scree.
--Just about any hilltopping black swallowtail is hard, especially without nectar, especially since these summits and ridges are usually extremely windy.
--Atrytonopsis sp. are always "fun".
--Viceroys are often out over the edge of water.
--At least half the time, Hesperia sp. give me fits.
--Apodemia mormo complex can be quite the headache when they wish to be, particularly when fresh and most desirable.
--Most any large spread-winged desert skipper in an open sunny wash, not at mud, with the exception of Erynnis, is a "good luck with that" proposition.
--Without an extremely attractive nectar source such as marsh thistle, Anteos sulphurs, at least in AZ, are a lepidopterist's worst nightmare.
--My all-time worst nemesis is probably Paratrytone snowi. How the heck does any human being get within 30' of that thing???
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Post by papiliotheona on May 21, 2021 19:37:20 GMT -8
Speaking of only netting, I have six real tough ones. I realize some are best caught w bait, but the question was for the netting of. Butterflies........ Junonia evarete nigrosuffusa,........fast, lands on ground and is very weary Eunica tatila,.......lands on 1-2” wide tree trunks which is hard to sneak up on and one has to double net from front and behind trunk Phoebis philea,....fast and flies high only occasionally landing on flowers Hypaurotis crysalus,......flies fast and high able to be brought down only with a purple flag Marpesia petreus.........in any good condition prior to or after netting. Moths....... tapping for Catocala atocala........hard to sneak up to and is fast and weary/tough to follow if disturbed. Crysalus is easy for me if you beat them out of the oak bushes in the morning or early afternoon and sometimes they can be readily caught during the afternoon flight when they are zipping around too. I agree on most of the others, albeit I have never had E. tatila and have only ever had one petreus (which I actually bagged with a lot of strategizing).
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Post by papiliotheona on May 21, 2021 19:34:25 GMT -8
Papilio glaucus at the wrong time of the day/year. I hate it when they don't come down to the ground. I got a few Anaea andria using a net. You can sneak up on them. That didn't compare to Charaxes jasius in Europe when you only have a net. You basically need bait for Anaea or to rear them. It takes a lot of luck to get them with your net.
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Post by papiliotheona on Apr 27, 2021 2:44:28 GMT -8
This will be an interesting year on the front range with the drought. You should have Papilio zelicaon and Pontia sisymbrii out now in some numbers, I would think. Callophrys sheridanii will have been out for awhile but can continue well into May, here and there.
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