erebia
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Posts: 30
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Post by erebia on Sept 26, 2019 14:21:19 GMT -8
I've been confronted about collecting multiple times in the national forests around Jackson Hole, Wyoming. The people who argue that what I am doing is illegal are usually local Forest Service summer volunteers that know nothing about the rules. Sometimes I'll take a tram to the high county to collect alpine specimens and employees of ski resorts will come after me as soon as I pull out my net. The resorts have permits to operate their businesses on national forest lands but they have no authority to interfere with insect collecting. So when confronted I will usually just take out my cell phone and demand that they call a law enforcement officer of their choice to come to the scene immediately remedy the situation. No one has ever called anyone and at that point they usually go silent and leave.
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Post by gaspipe on Sept 26, 2019 15:32:41 GMT -8
I've been confronted about collecting multiple times in the national forests around Jackson Hole, Wyoming. The people who argue that what I am doing is illegal are usually local Forest Service summer volunteers that know nothing about the rules. Sometimes I'll take a tram to the high county to collect alpine specimens and employees of ski resorts will come after me as soon as I pull out my net. The resorts have permits to operate their businesses on national forest lands but they have no authority to interfere with insect collecting. So when confronted I will usually just take out my cell phone and demand that they call a law enforcement officer of their choice to come to the scene immediately remedy the situation. No one has ever called anyone and at that point they usually go silent and leave. [ Good for you.
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Post by gaspipe on Sept 26, 2019 15:34:30 GMT -8
When people come up, usually out of curiosity, I simply say I’m a retired biology teacher doing research work. No problems. A few times late at night a conservation officer or county/state police officer stop to see that I’m legit. For the state parks, I have permits as needed just in case. Now.....if I got a buck for every weird look or comment made by passers by, I’d be a multi-millionaire. Interestingly, the one time I did have people bother me was when I exhibited my collection in a gallery of a university. I had many people, both orally and in the guestbook, accuse me of being a butterfly murderer. Needless to say, I’ve not exhibited since and probably won’t again. Gotta love it ; butterfly murderer. Same people who use abortion as birth control.
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Post by 58chevy on Sept 27, 2019 8:41:14 GMT -8
I keep a copy of this statement in my car, in case I'm confronted by anti-collecting people:
From Kaufman Field Guide to Butterflies of North America, p.17:
The main threat facing butterfly populations is loss of habitat.
Pollution of their surroundings, especially with insecticides, poses another problem.
Uninformed persons sometimes imagine that butterfly collectors pose a threat also, but there is scant evidence for this. During an average week in summer there are probably more butterflies killed by cars on American roads than the total taken by all the collectors in history. For any would-be protectors of butterflies, harassment of net-wielding lepidopterists is a waste of time; habitat protection is a more worthwhile effort.
We assume that most users of this guide want to watch butterflies, not collect them. However, these new watchers or “butterfliers” should recall that essentially all of our knowledge of butterfly classification and distribution is based on the work of collectors.
Species of butterflies new to science are still being discovered, and they must be scientifically documented before their habitat can be protected, so collecting is an essential part of both science and conservation. We have no evidence that collectors have ever caused the extinction of a butterfly species - but a strident anticollecting attitude might result in some species going extinct without having been discovered.
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Post by joee30 on Oct 8, 2019 10:35:31 GMT -8
I keep a copy of this statement in my car, in case I'm confronted by anti-collecting people: Uninformed persons sometimes imagine that butterfly collectors pose a threat also, but there is scant evidence for this. During an average week in summer there are probably more butterflies killed by cars on American roads than the total taken by all the collectors in history. For any would-be protectors of butterflies, harassment of net-wielding lepidopterists is a waste of time; habitat protection is a more worthwhile effort. We assume that most users of this guide want to watch butterflies, not collect them. However, these new watchers or “butterfliers” should recall that essentially all of our knowledge of butterfly classification and distribution is based on the work of collectors. Species of butterflies new to science are still being discovered, and they must be scientifically documented before their habitat can be protected, so collecting is an essential part of both science and conservation. We have no evidence that collectors have ever caused the extinction of a butterfly species - but a strident anticollecting attitude might result in some species going extinct without having been discovered. This is solid gold right here!!! Can't say how many times I have been "confronted" here in the Sierra's by a bunch of wannabe hippies and hipsters in their 20's. I usually laugh when they say "butterfly murderer", then show them by UNR badge to shut them down. The perks of doing work for a university does have some advantages to it.
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Oct 10, 2019 4:23:10 GMT -8
About 20 years ago I had an encounter with NABA members. Several NABA members attending a fielding meeting found some of my Bait Traps, cut them down and cut one up. It is a well documented incident. I believe I posted it on Insectnet some years ago.
I also understand that the number of "Watchers" has declined over the years. Whether that is true or not, I do not know.
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Oct 10, 2019 4:38:00 GMT -8
It took a little while, but I found the post from 11 April 2011. However, the original article follows:
The Article below appeared in the News of the Southern Lepidopterists Society Vol. 22 #4 - 2000.
THE INCIDENT ON SUGAR RIDGE by LEROY C. KOEHN
I have been a Lepidopterist since I was a young boy. My fascination with butterflies and moths has increased as I have grown older. The boyhood hobby of collecting and studying Lepidoptera grew to a great passion as an adult. As a teenager, I was encouraged by teachers, museum personnel, parents, and many adults in my pursuit of Lepidoptera. As an adult, I consider myself to be an ardent amateur Lepidopterists. However, what was once solely a pleasure, is slowly turning to aggravation. I became a target to some of those who believe that the collecting of butterflies is wrong.
During the past three years while a resident of Florida, Bob Beiriger of Loxihatchee, Dave Fine of Delray Beach, and I were surveying the Lepidoptera of south Florida. One area that has been of great interest to us has been the Sugar Ridge, the former shore line of Lake Okeechobee prior to the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers flood control, levee, and rim canal work around the Lake. The Sugar Ridge is the name given by the locals who live along the ridge as it is the barrier between the rim levee and the sugar cane fields. The Sugar Ridge is located on the northeast side of Lake Okeechobee that extends from Okeechobee County, through Martin County and ends in northwestern Palm Beach County. The ridge acts as a natural barrier and directs insects and birds either north or south along the ridge. We have been collecting Lepidoptera along the Sugar Ridge for the past two years and to date have recorded 606 species of butterflies and moths. The major method of collecting has been accomplished with bait traps, pheromone traps, and light traps. Bob Beiriger is also a Coleopterist and has been using various types of traps for beetles. We have sought and obtained permission of the land owners to collect and set out the traps on their property. Once the traps were in place, each of us would take his turn monitoring the traps, recording the species and then servicing the traps. This requires a constant effort on our part and has been very rewarding.
In February of 2000, I was contacted by the person arranging field trips in conjunction with the NABA annual meeting which was to be held in West Palm Beach, Florida the weekend of 19, 20 & 21 May 2000. I suggested several areas for them to visit including a location on the Sugar Ridge at the Port Mayaca Locks in Martin County. Here they could find Siproeta stelenes, Marpesia petreus, Asterocampa flora, Asterocamps alicia, and many of the more common butterflies. The field trip coordinator and I have known each other for several years and we respect each others opinions and share information on Lepidoptera freely.
I am no longer a member of NABA and therefore gave no further thought to their meeting nor their field trips. However, all that changed the night of Sunday, 21 May 2000, when I received three telephone calls informing me that during the NABA field trip to the Sugar Ridge location at Port Mayaca Locks that one of my traps had been destroyed and others tampered with by those attending the field trip. I was very upset to say the least. For the first time in my life, there was a direct attack on my passion and collecting work.
I visited the site of the incident on Monday, 22 May 2000, and notified the Martin County Sheriff’s Department. The responding deputy knew of our activities and was also aware that there was a group of some sort in the area on Sunday.
I was provided with the names of the two individuals who destroyed the trap. The Atala Chapter of NABA who hosted the meeting contacted both individuals and requested that they resolve the incident with me directly. Both of the individuals contacted me via the Internet. One explained his involvement in the incident. When the bait trap was originally found, it was lowered (It was approximately 30 feet up in a tree) and emptied of its contents. They returned to the bait trap a second time and noticed that there was no identification on the trap and they presumed that the bait trap was illegal and they cut the trap down and cut it up. They found a second trap which was also lowered, however, this trap had identification (I had used it the previous year in a state park that required identification.). This trap was not damaged, although it was emptied. The individual went on to further explain that they knew there were legal traps used by government agencies and that they presumed that the bait trap was illegal. The other wrote that the traps were illegal and she destroyed it to save the butterflies.
I informed these individuals that my traps were on private property and that I had the permission of the landowner to collect and set out traps. There are no laws prohibiting the use of traps to collect insects, including butterflies on private property. There are however, places that the use of traps for the collection of insects, including butterflies, requires a collecting/research permit. These included National Wildlife Refuges, National Parks, Historic Sites and Monuments, State Parks, County Parks and any other areas where wildlife is protected and a collecting/research permit is required. Further, unless either of these individuals is a wildlife officer or law enforcement officer, they have no legal right or authority to destroy or remove my traps. If they believed that my traps were illegal, they should have reported the trap to a wildlife officer or a law enforcement agency. Just because they presumed the traps were illegal does not give them the right nor authority to destroy the trap. The destruction of the trap was the destruction of personal property and it is a crime! I also informed them that I had filed a complaint with the Martin County Sheriff Department and that a warrant for their arrest would be issued.
I received numerous apologies, including Jeffrey Glassberg on behalf of NABA, the Atala Chapter of NABA in South Florida, and both individuals of the group involved in the destruction of the trap. I had numerous offers from NABA members to pay for the trap. In the end the two individual who destroyed the trap accepted their responsibility and paid for the trap. I promptly dropped all charges.
Although this brought an end to the sad episode, with the passage of time my emotions have settled down and I have been able come to some conclusions. First of all, there are individuals in the world who are vehemently opposed to the collecting of insects and will overreach sensible bounds to express their displeasure with collecting and Lepidopterists. Such people appear to be driven more by their emotions than by rational thought and consequently are seldom swayed by scientific argument. We as Lepidopterists can do little or nothing about them, but it is important that we recognize that they exist and acknowledge the remote possibility of conflict.
To this end I can think of nothing better to do than take the actions we all know are prerequisite to responsible collecting in the first place: Be absolutely sure that you are collecting at a site where such activity is not restricted (or obtain the necessary permit(s) if restrictions apply); obtain permission from landowners to use their property; and be as unobtrusive as possible. Furthermore, having determined that your activities are not in violation of any laws or regulations, defend your right to collect vigorously to a satisfactory conclusion if challenged in any way!
One final lesson that I have learned from this episode is that we can't draw conclusions about entire organizations based on the activities of a few of their members. Obviously NABA has members who are vehemently opposed to collecting. Yet NABA as an organization is not specifically opposed to collecting and has in it's membership a number of collectors and professional Lepidopterists. Unlike the nonprofit Lepidopterists' Society which has a constitution, elected officers, and clearly stated guidelines for collecting, NABA is a private corporation with a board of directors which acts in an advisory capacity to its president. Therefore membership in NABA, in contrast to membership in the Lepidopterists' Society, does not imply adherence to any stated position on collecting insects.
As Lepidopterists, we can do no more than go about our legitimate activities to the extent of our desire, understand that there are some who resent our right to do so, and we must defend our rights whenever necessary.
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Post by kevinkk on Nov 14, 2019 21:49:02 GMT -8
I was chastised for catching butterflies once, it was unexpected and somewhat traumatic at the time. I've also been kicked out of a campground for the same thing. Personally, I feel that normal harvesting for specimens does no harm, although repeated collecting at the same location may have an effect, especially if you're using a light trap and removing females. I do give consideration to my own collecting activity, and sometimes find the sale of wild collected material troubling, I suppose it depends on a host of different variables, it takes some good judgment on our part as collectors to ensure we don't get regulated out of the hobby, or decimate a population.
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Post by wollastoni on Nov 20, 2019 8:20:32 GMT -8
I have collected in several countries and never had any issue. Few time, people were asking and I answered the truth : "a survey of rhopalocera and heterocera population". Most people will feel stupid and leave you work peacefully.
As said before in this topic, insects don't need protection, they need an habitat protection and then they will thrive. Insects are at the bottom of the food ladder, and TRILLIONS of them are eaten everyday without any impact. Protect the habitat, and insect species, even rare ones will survive.
Of course, collectors must respect local laws. Not to save insects (we do no harm) but to avoid new stupid laws against us.
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