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Post by scinsects on Mar 3, 2017 17:34:29 GMT -8
I know this topic has been visited in the past and I have read Vernon Brou's article on the topic. I want to share my recent experience and solicit assistance from those in the know. Despite the assurances of the previous threads here I wanted to contact my nearby National Forest office in eastern North Carolina before heading out on a collecting trip. I asked the lady by phone if collecting was permitted. She didn't know but would ask the appropriate person and get back with me. She called back a few hours later and said she has spoken to their "biologist" who said collecting was not allowed unless I was affiliated with a university or other research institution. I had explained to her during our previous conversation that it was noncommercial, very low volume collecting. She further clarified that if I was caught collecting in the forest I would be subject to penalties by their law enforcement officers.
I want to the USDA/NFS website and sent in an email asking for clarification. I got back a generic email saying they get a large volume of messages and it may be a while before I get a response.
At this point I'm not sure where to turn. If anybody has any input or suggestions I would greatly appreciate it.
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Post by eurytides on Mar 3, 2017 21:27:53 GMT -8
As far as I know, recreational collecting in NFs don't need a permit. See theskepticalmoth.com under the collecting permits info section.
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Post by obewan on Mar 5, 2017 7:04:46 GMT -8
If there is a Ranger station or some office IN the park, go in and talk fae to face with someone there.
Most times the people on the phone haven't a clue what they are talking about...
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rjb
Full Member
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Post by rjb on Mar 6, 2017 5:51:26 GMT -8
Collecting insects in US National Forest areas is generally allowed. This has been discussed repeatedly. The problem with an occasional forest ranger being unaware that it is permitted has also come up. I do volunteer work with the US forest service. I have collected beetles extensively in our local National Forest without getting any special permission and have published papers mentioning the specimens and where they were collected. It is certainly legal and you do not need a permit. Some coworkers at the museums where I volunteer have related anecdotes about friends who have been badgered by "officials" who claimed they should not be collecting, but this would be a mistake if it actually occurred. It sounds fine to stop in and inquire at a local Forest Service office, but it is not necessary and you might still get misinformation because these offices may be staffed by volunteers who do not know.
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Post by vabrou on Mar 27, 2017 8:20:12 GMT -8
My published article was not a BS opinion or a discussion. I posted the official response by the US Nat. Forest across the entire country. Bottom line no permit is required, period. A coup[le of minor exceptions out west. The situation you are experiencing are idiots who are making up their own unauthorized regulations. This is what caused my addressing the matter previously. A local clown here insisted I had to receive a special permit from him. This BS was stopped because of my request to address this matter from the National headquarters office. If some fool tell you crap, ask them where are the regulations, produce them. They will not be able to do so. Advise them you have the official answer (see my published article which includes a copy of the letter addressing the matter.) Assholes like this exist everywhere. The government is out of control with crap like this. Report this 'King of the nat. Forest' to the National Headquarters. Use the names and phone numbers on my letter.
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Post by exoticimports on Mar 27, 2017 9:46:44 GMT -8
My published article was not a BS opinion or a discussion. I posted the official response by the US Nat. Forest across the entire country. Bottom line no permit is required, period. A coup[le of minor exceptions out west. The situation you are experiencing are idiots who are making up their own unauthorized regulations. This is what caused my addressing the matter previously. A local clown here insisted I had to receive a special permit from him. This BS was stopped because of my request to address this matter from the National headquarters office. If some fool tell you crap, ask them where are the regulations, produce them. They will not be able to do so. Advise them you have the official answer (see my published article which includes a copy of the letter addressing the matter.) Assholes like this exist everywhere. The government is out of control with crap like this. Report this 'King of the nat. Forest' to the National Headquarters. Use the names and phone numbers on my letter. Time to drain the swamp! Certainly, I recommend carrying Vabrou's letter from Nat. Forest- it will save you some time while idiot finds out what the law says. When I was importing I'd carry the federal laws with me and they came in very handy to educate Customs and USFWS. I would go so far as to suggest that in some cases USFWS knew the law, but elected to act otherwise just to bully. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2017 10:14:50 GMT -8
Amen to that!
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Post by scinsects on Mar 27, 2017 19:01:25 GMT -8
Rather amusing follow up on my original post. I called back to the local national forest office. I asked the lady who I had originally spoken to if I could speak to the head ranger for the forest. I left him a message and he promptly returned my call. His response was "we have plenty of bugs, come on down!". Crazy how they have such misinformed people working there.
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Post by exoticimports on Mar 28, 2017 3:50:46 GMT -8
Rather amusing follow up on my original post. I called back to the local national forest office. I asked the lady who I had originally spoken to if I could speak to the head ranger for the forest. I left him a message and he promptly returned my call. His response was "we have plenty of bugs, come on down!". Crazy how they have such misinformed people working there. What we need is a National Registry of Government Employees To Be Fired. Then the Trump regime can monitor it and get rid of the useless dead wood, having had the research done for them. The lady you spoke with- she's on the list. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2017 5:43:06 GMT -8
Although this is not insect related it still pertains to the topic. A month ago I requested information on collecting some non-game native fish for a 75 gallon aquarium I want to setup. I was told flat out no by one state biologist. Not satisfied with that answer I kept asking around. I finally got a email stating I need a scientific collecting permit to collect what most people would use as crappie bait. None of the species I want are endangered or protected. I'm still waiting on my permit application.
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Post by Paul K on Mar 28, 2017 7:21:31 GMT -8
The problem is that people in charge they are reacting according to their feelings not to the laws.
Last time I brought to Canada about 500 moths the custom officer, woman in her mid 30' she said to me :
Uh...there is no way you can bring those disgusting
bugs into Canada. I answared : Really ? And upon what law you are stating this. I said I am tired after 48 hrs of flight back home and I am not in the mood of playing here. She went to call all around her bosses and after half hour she said to me I apologize there is nothing against importing dead insects into Canada.
What a headache.
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Post by tv on Mar 29, 2017 4:22:38 GMT -8
My published article was not a BS opinion or a discussion. I posted the official response by the US Nat. Forest across the entire country. Bottom line no permit is required, period. A coup[le of minor exceptions out west. The situation you are experiencing are idiots who are making up their own unauthorized regulations. This is what caused my addressing the matter previously. A local clown here insisted I had to receive a special permit from him. This BS was stopped because of my request to address this matter from the National headquarters office. If some fool tell you crap, ask them where are the regulations, produce them. They will not be able to do so. Advise them you have the official answer (see my published article which includes a copy of the letter addressing the matter.) Assholes like this exist everywhere. The government is out of control with crap like this. Report this 'King of the nat. Forest' to the National Headquarters. Use the names and phone numbers on my letter. Time to drain the swamp! Certainly, I recommend carrying Vabrou's letter from Nat. Forest- it will save you some time while idiot finds out what the law says. When I was importing I'd carry the federal laws with me and they came in very handy to educate Customs and USFWS. I would go so far as to suggest that in some cases USFWS knew the law, but elected to act otherwise just to bully. I went looking, but can't seem to locate Vabrou's letter. Could someone kindly provide a link or search term? |
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Post by joee30 on Mar 29, 2017 17:42:50 GMT -8
That's weird because I have only been stopped once in the local Toiyabe National Forest, and it was because some overzealous birders "tipped" them off to some butterfly poachers. Lol Me and a friend were actually collecting some specimens for the UNR museum since many of their specimens are old, and they need some new bugs. They didn't do anything to us because we weren't collecting a lot of one thing, and we had many different orders. Aside from that, just got stopped by one curious ranger, but he tipped us off on some really good spots.
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