Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 19:00:55 GMT -8
Out of all the collectors I've met, I've never heard of anybody specializing in fossilized insects. With the abundance of insects throughout the ages, why don't you see more of them on the market? Beetles should be especially prone to fossilization, but maybe not? This specimen is available on eBay for the bargain price of 31k. Notice the fish...looks like some of our scaly friends also knew how to swim   |
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Post by nomihoudai on Oct 12, 2015 23:32:15 GMT -8
I would say most of the fossilized Lepidoptera go directly into museum collections where they belong. There is not that many of these fossils as Lepidoptera are very difficult to fossilize. At the last SEL congress there was a whole session about fossilized Lepidoptera. There is only 43 species recognized so far. I cannot find the exact number of known fossils at the moment, but I think it was around 1000 of them. It is already difficult to get all Papilionidae where there is just a view hundred species and you can catch new specimens of most of them every year, and yet it is difficult, only enjoyable for those with big pockets. Now imagine this with fossils. In Frankfurt there was sometimes a seller of fossilized insects, probably imitations like most fossils, and still they cost 50€ upwards, for this money I rather buy a box of colorful mounted specimen.
The shown specimen looks fake to me, I have never heard of gigantism in ancient Lepidoptera. I know that it happened in dragon flies and millipedes, but never heard about it in butterflies, beetles, or grashoppers. I may be wrong but I think these orders are much younger than the high oxygen period.
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Post by africaone on Oct 13, 2015 1:16:38 GMT -8
and together a fish ! that's well known all the live together  they probably used a real fossil (fish) and used the stone for making a fake ! |
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Post by nomihoudai on Oct 13, 2015 1:45:27 GMT -8
I'm not necessarily worried about the fish and the butterfly, most butterfly fossils come from a single quarry in China which was the result of a massive landslide and things could have ended up right next to each other. But maybe it would have been strange to have such a big butterfly at any moment in time close to an open water place with fish. Idk.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2015 10:09:24 GMT -8
It appears this is definitely a niche market, and I would agree there are far too many living leps to be concerned with fossils, at least for me right now. A friend of mine has been collecting seashells his entire life, and now only specializes in extremely rare Muricidae and fossilized shells, he said he is at the end of the novelty leash and trying to keep things interesting . I also recall a member here mentioning they knew a guy who resorted to collecting dwarf Ornithoptera for similar reasons. It would be cool to go all Jurassic Park get some amber insects for display, something different anyways. For the "gigantic papillon" above, I definitely smell something fishy...ahem...I'll be here all night **gets booed off stage**  |
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Post by jshuey on Oct 13, 2015 10:34:52 GMT -8
I have a few bugs (flies and beetles) that I picked up in the Dominican Republic a few years back. Bought them at the mine where they were collected.
The fossil looks real to me. These types of impressions get made during flood events usually on the edges of lakes or estuaries. The combination of silt in flood waters and violent events covers the dead animal (or plant) very rapidly and encases it. Then when you slip it open, you get impressions of the two halves.Fish are the most common fossils formed this way, and I have a small slab with about 10 fish in it from the US. Fish contaminate fossils like this - so you often see the best leaf imprints with fish on or near them.
If you look at the fossil, you'll see one half has leg impressions and the other shows the upper thorax and abdomen.
My speculated scenario is. 1 - Big moth gets caught in torrential downpour, and ends up on the surface of a lake. 2 - torrential rain sinks moth. 3. runoff from adjacent "badlands" creates new layer in shale deposit. Anoxic conditions slow bug rot. 4. a few 10s of million years pass. 5. some Chinese dude, looking for fish for the international fossil market gets lucky.
John
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2015 18:05:25 GMT -8
I know very little about fossil formation, thanks for the info guys.
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mygos
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Post by mygos on Oct 22, 2015 3:57:10 GMT -8
I just found this plate from 1840 "Annales de la Societe Entomologique de France"  This fossil has been found near Aix en Provence in France and the paper is written by Dr. Boisduval ! A+, Michel |
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Post by africaone on Oct 22, 2015 5:59:42 GMT -8
I just found this plate from 1840 "Annales de la Societe Entomologique de France" This fossil has been found near Aix en Provence in France and the paper is written by Dr. Boisduval ! A+, Michel is it a drawing or a photo ? |
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mygos
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Post by mygos on Oct 22, 2015 7:07:21 GMT -8
africaone, photo were not very common in 1840 This is an engraved plate ... A+, Michel
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Post by africaone on Oct 22, 2015 7:59:58 GMT -8
africaone, photo were not very common in 1840 This is an engraved plate ... A+, Michel oups yes Mygos, then is it so reliable and precise on the original ? |
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Post by hypanartia on Jan 7, 2016 21:38:05 GMT -8
Come on, that is a joke or a fake. White and black spots cannot be fossilized as such, specially in stone.
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Post by nomihoudai on Jan 8, 2016 0:24:54 GMT -8
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Post by cabintom on Jan 8, 2016 4:46:49 GMT -8
Wow, even the antennae are visible! |
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Post by cabintom on Jan 8, 2016 4:57:44 GMT -8
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