wzinke
Junior Member
Posts: 29
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Post by wzinke on Jun 1, 2015 4:50:41 GMT -8
Hello again, I really need assistance from the members who helped show that Ornithoptera can be faded and altered by UV light. I was the newbie who fell for the scam on ebay a month or so ago. I am trying to recover what I lost but they [ebay] are saying that they need direct third party corroboration. I tried to talk them through getting on here and reading through the threads on this incident, but I don't think they are doing that. PLEASE, if you know how this can be done and how humidity changes the altered scales to make it lose color permanently, PLEASE if you would be so kind as to verify this to ebay by either emailing me directly at wesben4@juno.com or better yet, ebay at: highvalueclaimsinfo@ebay.com [please cite thread ID # 1-48246602624] OK, I know I am asking a lot from folks I don't know. I feel terrible that I didn't know this was a scam until after the fact. I am a gullible sucker for sure... but I am asking this last ditch effort for help so hopefully Ebay could see I am not just making it up. Especially hoping Ornithorchid and Manfred Hewi [you guys especially helped in the last thread]could respond to them. Or if any one else I have worked with or purchased insects from over the years could give a positive evaluation of me that would help so much as well... Someone [bartekgoldyn] mentioned you saw that Ornithoptera are faded by UV in a monograph by "Haugum and Low 2001" but I have searched and could not locate it. Please if someone can point me in the right direction there as well.... Again, I know I am asking a lot but I am quite desperate here. Attached is the photo of the proof showing that it was definitely altered by UV....the bright green spots where the UV did not hit clearly show, but I had to relax to reveal which then turned whole butterfly completely dark... Originally, the high humidity in Florida changed the bright blue color to a dull dark gray.  Thank you all, Will Zinke |
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Post by ornithorchid on Jun 1, 2015 12:38:22 GMT -8
Hi there.
Do they require the person sending the comments supporting your case to be a recognized or accredited person such as a member of an entomological society or an official from an entomology department at xyz museum?
Let me know.
Emmanuel
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wzinke
Junior Member
Posts: 29
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Post by wzinke on Jun 1, 2015 13:11:40 GMT -8
I think that anyone who could verify that humidity permanently changes the color on a UV altered butterfly [birdwing like this one] is what they are asking. Any third person confirmation would sure help! They are reconsidering my claim if others can verify this. It was darker than the original photo on his auction when I opened it, and it was due to the physical alteration from the scales [caused by UV exposure from seller] reacting with the high humidity where I live. I would be forever grateful if you could confirm this, even if you are not an official from an entomology department or museum! It would really be helpful Emmanuel to share your experience here, it was your helpful advice that helped see where the original green was!
Also the "Haugman and Low" 2001 monograph if someone knows of it that would also be a very big help. Thank you! I know I am asking a lot, but thank you!
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wzinke
Junior Member
Posts: 29
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Post by wzinke on Jun 1, 2015 13:14:27 GMT -8
Their email is
highvalueclaimsinfo@ebay.com [please cite thread ID # 1-48246602624] and direct to Nick...
if that doesn't work, my email wesben4@juno.com and then I can forward...
Thanks Emmanuel
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jun 2, 2015 0:37:44 GMT -8
Also the "Haugman and Low" 2001 monograph if someone knows of it that would also be a very big help. Thank you! I know I am asking a lot, but thank you! You mean Haugum and Low. Certainly there was no 2001 publication, as sadly both authors were long gone by then. The Monograph of the Birdwing Butterflies was published between 1978 and 1985 in 2 volumes with 3 parts in each. Ornithoptera victoriae is covered in vol. 1, part 1. Adam. |
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Post by exoticimports on Jun 2, 2015 4:52:28 GMT -8
From 2001-2005 I was the largest exporter of OV from SI. I will write to Ebay. May not be today, but I will do it.
Make it easy on me, give me the link to the other discussion.
Chuck
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jun 2, 2015 8:13:25 GMT -8
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Post by butterfly on Jun 2, 2015 11:22:02 GMT -8
Hello again, I really need assistance from the members who helped show that Ornithoptera can be faded and altered by UV light. I was the newbie who fell for the scam on ebay a month or so ago. I am trying to recover what I lost but they [ebay] are saying that they need direct third party corroboration. I tried to talk them through getting on here and reading through the threads on this incident, but I don't think they are doing that. PLEASE, if you know how this can be done and how humidity changes the altered scales to make it lose color permanently, PLEASE if you would be so kind as to verify this to ebay by either emailing me directly at wesben4@juno.com or better yet, ebay at: highvalueclaimsinfo@ebay.com [please cite thread ID # 1-48246602624] OK, I know I am asking a lot from folks I don't know. I feel terrible that I didn't know this was a scam until after the fact. I am a gullible sucker for sure... but I am asking this last ditch effort for help so hopefully Ebay could see I am not just making it up. Especially hoping Ornithorchid and Manfred Hewi [you guys especially helped in the last thread]could respond to them. Or if any one else I have worked with or purchased insects from over the years could give a positive evaluation of me that would help so much as well... Someone [bartekgoldyn] mentioned you saw that Ornithoptera are faded by UV in a monograph by "Haugum and Low 2001" but I have searched and could not locate it. Please if someone can point me in the right direction there as well.... Again, I know I am asking a lot but I am quite desperate here. Attached is the photo of the proof showing that it was definitely altered by UV....the bright green spots where the UV did not hit clearly show, but I had to relax to reveal which then turned whole butterfly completely dark... Originally, the high humidity in Florida changed the bright blue color to a dull dark gray. View Attachment Thank you all, Will Zinke Will, I think that you better leave all as it is. Condition butterfly has not returned to the former. I think that you will never get your money back, because the butterfly spoiled and you can not prove that you do not spoil it!!! |
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jun 2, 2015 11:27:54 GMT -8
standacer,
I think Will actually wants to prove to eBay that the original seller sold the item to him fraudulently, rather than that the change in colour after he relaxed it was the fault of the seller.
Adam.
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Post by butterfly on Jun 2, 2015 11:38:39 GMT -8
standacer, I think Will actually wants to prove to eBay that the original seller sold the item to him fraudulently, rather than that the change in colour after he relaxed it was the fault of the seller. Adam. Adam, I do not understand what sense to prove ebay seller that he had sold a fake, if the goods are damaged and can not be returned. |
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wzinke
Junior Member
Posts: 29
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Post by wzinke on Jun 2, 2015 11:50:51 GMT -8
standacer, I think Will actually wants to prove to eBay that the original seller sold the item to him fraudulently, rather than that the change in colour after he relaxed it was the fault of the seller. Adam. Correct Adam, I am trying to show the seller did not reveal that the specimen was artificially altered [which I have since learned]but instead was advertised as a naturally caught one-of-a-kind world rarity.... I am hoping they see that it is like selling an antique or other rare item that turns out to be counterfeit [knowingly misrepresented by the seller]. I have since learned [but am not holding my breath that ebay will agree, but trying!] the fading colors were due to the humidity [seller being from Russia with low humidity did not affect colors until it arrived here in Florida] destroying the UV altered scales.... Anyway, thank you Adam and all....after your correction I checked that Haugum and Low Vol. 1 Monograph was from 1978, and is out of print. Maybe it can be located but I am just going on hearsay that somewhere in that volume they mention UV light can fade the colors....I am not even sure it says that. If someone has it and they can possibly send me a photo of the cover and another of the page and quote that would be fantastic, but I won't hold my breath! Thanks again, Will |
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Post by stapleton on Jun 2, 2015 19:05:37 GMT -8
Dear colleagues, do you really believe the seller did NOT know he was selling a FAKE? - That's ridiculous. And the photo posted by Will is a 100% SUFFICIENT PROOF of this, provided you are looking for TRUTH, NOT FOR MONEY. The only question is, what them eBay "judges" are really looking for... The specimen could as well have turned ALL RED in Will's hands, but as long as there are those GREEN areas not affected by UV there is ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT the SELLER HAS TO REFUND THE TOTAL AMOUNT paid by Will, IMHO.
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Post by butterfly on Jun 2, 2015 21:08:04 GMT -8
Dear colleagues, do you really believe the seller did NOT know he was selling a FAKE? - That's ridiculous. And the photo posted by Will is a 100% SUFFICIENT PROOF of this, provided you are looking for TRUTH, NOT FOR MONEY. The only question is, what them eBay "judges" are really looking for... The specimen could as well have turned ALL RED in Will's hands, but as long as there are those GREEN areas not affected by UV there is ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT the SELLER HAS TO REFUND THE TOTAL AMOUNT paid by Will, IMHO. Stapleton, I think that your opinion false. How can you say that the seller knew that sells fake. You that all-seeing GOD!!! This is just simply your opinion. As far as I know, it is not possible to change the color of a butterfly with used the powerful ultraviolet color. It is a legend!!! These green spots are not is direct evidence that she was exposed powerful UV light. And yet, as you stapleton think it would be fair to go back spoiled butterfly and demand a full refund for it  ? I think that it is the already chutzpah. Where is here the common sense!!! |
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Post by hewi on Jun 3, 2015 0:08:51 GMT -8
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Post by butterfly on Jun 3, 2015 1:22:43 GMT -8
Manfred Photo Laurie1 is not comparable with this photo blue O. Victoriae rubianus. Note that even O.Victoriae color smooth, while priamus not smooth color in divorced. Again, it is only in words, no direct evidence that this priamus was make with used powerful UV light. If you think that this is possible, and it's so easy to do, I think you are sadly mistaken. You take yourself and make exactly the same O. Victoriae, and then already speak. |
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Thank you all, Will Zinke
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