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Post by sanphilep on Aug 8, 2014 7:15:45 GMT -8
Hi There I thought of bringing up the subject of larvae preservation. This method of emptying and blowing before drying I used to do years ago and what I have preserved years ago still exists in pretty good shape today. Are there easier and less time consuming methods of keeping larvae dry in a collection? I find that green larvae loose the colour this way. Any ideas and suggestions would be interesting to discuss.  |
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Post by exoticimports on Aug 19, 2014 7:13:52 GMT -8
Another method is to fill them with silicon. I haven't done it, but have seen the results and they look pretty good because the larvae are not as translucent.
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Post by bobw on Aug 19, 2014 7:24:56 GMT -8
I've seen some good results in recent years with freeze-dried larvae.
Bob
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Post by exoticimports on Aug 20, 2014 7:12:03 GMT -8
I've seen some good results in recent years with freeze-dried larvae. Bob Can one use a food dehydrator for this? They cost $50. Commercial freeze dryers cost $4000. |
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Post by bobw on Aug 20, 2014 21:59:02 GMT -8
I've seen some good results in recent years with freeze-dried larvae. Bob Can one use a food dehydrator for this? They cost $50. Commercial freeze dryers cost $4000. Sorry, I can't help. I've seen the results but I know nothing about the techniques. Bob |
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Post by oehlkew on Aug 21, 2014 1:08:21 GMT -8
I too have seen the results of freeze drying, and results are very good.
I know little about the technique, and have not used it myself.
I have a food dehydrator and use it frequently for drying apple slices. The slices shrink considerably as heat and a fan drive off the moisture. I suspect the same thing (shrinkage) would occur if you tried using a food dehydrator to try to preserve the larvae. I also expect there would be discoloration of the larvae as this process is relatively slow and there also could be some spoilage which would not be good for long term results.
With freeze drying, the cold temperatures, lock/freeze the tissues in place so there would be no or very little shrinkage and the very dry cold air "sucks" the moisture out of the larvae.
You could always try the food dehydrator, but I expect the results would not be good, maybe even disastrous and unpleasant for you and the live larvae and possibly anyone else who thinks of possibly using the same dehydrator for food.
Bill Oehlke
PS. If you can find someone who has actually used freeze drying equipment, you might be able to pick up second hand equipment at a much lower price and may get some tips on how to get the best results. I will be in New Jersey in October and I know someone there who used freeze drying techniques to create life history frames for university studies. He is no longer doing that (close to 90 years old, maybe older), and may still have the equipment. I have often thought of trying to acquire the equipment from him, but have never approached him with any level of persistence.
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tome
Junior Member
Posts: 24
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Post by tome on Aug 21, 2014 4:24:12 GMT -8
From what I have heard from a university professor here in Finland who has been freeze-drying larvae for years, freeze-dryers are not suitable for this. Instead the larvae are placed in (plastic)test tubes which are then placed in air-tight containers on a bed of zilica gel. The container is then placed in a normal freezer for 6-18 months (?) depending on the size of the larvae. The results are amazing and worth the wait.
I have thought of trying this for many years, but never got started. There is an old article on the topic which can be found on google.
Tom
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Post by ripheus on Aug 22, 2014 4:01:02 GMT -8
In the book "Argentinean Butterflies" Volume I author D.Andres Varga (written in Spanish) a method is detailed invented by this person and referred to the conservation of larvas and caterpillars by means of its emptying and injection of "Silicona" common that one sells in the hardware stores. The result is A SUCCESS, since the larvas are in its original size, they don't break if they fall to the floor, it can sustain them with the hands without problems or to fix crossing a pin, and its duration is "eternal." I will try to translate the I articulate and I will publish it to the brevity. Greetings. Ripheus.
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Post by ripheus on Aug 22, 2014 4:50:38 GMT -8
www.mariposasdelmundo.com/ARGENTINEAN - BUTTERFLIES It is a didactic and unpublished work in our country, with the cultured guide for the identification and classification of the butterflies of the County of Buenos Aires and their nutricias. plants . It includes the most modern technical and methods for the breeding, collection and preservation of collections with scientific bases. Of luxurious presentation (measures 20 x 28 cm.) it possesses 150 pages of paper illustration, with more than 400 pictures and designs with all the splendor of their low colors the highest photographic quality. It can be acquired in the one Museum Butterflies of the World Italia 650 San Miguel (C.P. 1663) Provincia de Buenos Aires Republica Argentina
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Post by sanphilep on Aug 23, 2014 8:35:05 GMT -8
This drying method is pretty much similar to how I have dried my larvae.
The difference is that mine where dried on a gas mantle lamp. The risk being that if you keep the larva too close it will catch fire and burn. With the larva in a glass tube it is protected from the excessive heat. I use the inflator like that of a blood pressure monitor(sphygmomanometer) to inflate and save me from blowing with my mouth.
I must admit that the next time I have larvae to spare I will try the silicone method. I suppose I still have to empty the gut otherwise there will be no room for the silicone.
What would be the next step after inflation? Do you dehydrate in the sun or oven?
The freeze dry sounds also excellent and it would preserve any hairs on the larva that are generally burnet with my drying method.
I have for some years preserved larvae in alcohol in glass tubes but I find that some change colour and you have also to change the solution every time the fluid changes colour.
Boiling the larva for a few minutes before putting in alcohol preserves well the larvae but these can not be used for DNA.
It is also to note that larvae in alcohol can not be kept in the boxes with dried specimens. I have found pictures on the internet of a larvae collection of blown larvae and these seem to be interesting. I will try finding a method to post them or the link.
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Post by sanphilep on Aug 23, 2014 8:37:40 GMT -8
Here is the link to preserved larvae:http://caterpillarblog.com/tag/inflated-caterpillar/
Regards
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Post by ripheus on Aug 23, 2014 9:20:36 GMT -8
Dear friend: I want to clarify him the opinion..... In the mentioned book several procedures are indicated (in alcohol, insuflado in lamp, etc) but the "interesting" it is the one stuffed with "transparent Silicona" of commercial and very economic use. I can send you alive caterpillars next to others injected with siliconas and you won't know how to determine the difference!!!!!
Cordially. Ripheus
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Post by ripheus on Aug 23, 2014 9:37:57 GMT -8
Dear friend: I send 2 pictures (I could send many) of caterpillars of Morpho catenarius and Automeris orange. Could you determine which are alive and which have been "insufladas with silicona" does make but of 20 years? This has been a discovery and invention of the Dr. Andrés Varga, founder and director of the Museum Butterflies of the World.
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Post by ripheus on Aug 23, 2014 15:37:03 GMT -8
Pardon... the black caterpillar with yellow hair is of Leuconella memusae gardineri (Lemaire 1972) = Automeris memusae (Walker, 1855). Ripheus.
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Post by sanphilep on Aug 23, 2014 23:06:16 GMT -8
Great jog and would really try the silicone method.
I suppose you have to put it in a syringe to have a small nozzle.
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