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Post by admin on Jun 30, 2014 4:28:17 GMT -8
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Post by wollastoni on Jun 30, 2014 10:08:32 GMT -8
So sad
Indonesian governors and Western consumers should all be jailed...
I have heard the chainsaws all night long when I was in Indonesian Papua jungles...
So sad, so sad, so sad
BTW boycott all products with non sustainable palm oil like Pantene and Head&Shoulders shampoos, Nutella !
Soon it will be too late.
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Post by nomihoudai on Jun 30, 2014 23:06:00 GMT -8
And then? People will run around without showering their heads and eat empty breads? Of course they won't, they will use products of other companies and these companies will be forced to produce their products for millions of customers. Don't make a fool out of yourself by pointing at a single company and screaming that it is their fault. There is too many people on this planet, period. Of course it is easier to shift the blame on others than to think what is going wrong on our own doorsteps. If you can give any reasonable advise then it is to consume less shampoo or for example Nutella. There is no point in having 3 sandwiches for breakfast and then going to the gym to loose weight.
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Post by krupten on Jul 1, 2014 1:53:01 GMT -8
boycotting sure - but that is only a fraction what palmoil brings in for revenues. IF you take it away? what then? Rubber? corn? cocaine? How will these 300 million Indonesians sustain their country - and how does any one or any countries government change the mind of a people who are totally indoctrinated by a religion?
YOU CANT.
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Post by kirkwilliams on Jul 1, 2014 1:58:17 GMT -8
Homonids have been around for about 2 million years.
Homo sapiens for 200,000.
It took 199,900 years for our population to hit the one billion mark, during the late 19th century, about the time Churchill was riding to Khartoum with Kitchener on camel and horse.
In the last hundred years we have increased our population to 7 billion! Two and one half billion in the last quarter century.
I would consider our current presence on this planet a devastating infection to all other life forms for which there is no remedy. Our abuse of this planet is grotesque.
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Post by wollastoni on Jul 1, 2014 3:01:12 GMT -8
nomihoudai : you are wrong on this. Procter and Gamble is the only big company of shampoos who still use unsustainable palm oils in their Pantene and Head&Shoulders shampoos (unlike L'Oreal, Unilever and so on). Procter could easily use sustainable palm oils. The only thing big companies understand is the "boycott".
krupten : as you know, if the problem of deforestation is so huge in Indonesia, it is not only the problem of poor farmers who cut the forests for living. It is mainly because Indonesian authorities sell the forest to big palm oil and paper companies. In Indonesia, we face an "intensive" deforestation
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Post by nomihoudai on Jul 1, 2014 3:06:51 GMT -8
Sustainable palm oil, sounds like an oxymoron to me.
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Post by wollastoni on Jul 1, 2014 4:44:41 GMT -8
Well it is not, and it is the only solution for locals.
The idea is to say, we all understand that we cannot transform the palm oil plantations in a virgin forest again (unfortunately)... so let's use the already gigantic deforested part to produce palm oils and let's not touch the remaining forests.
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Post by bichos on Jul 1, 2014 15:40:37 GMT -8
Government needs to step in and Stop us from buying products containing Palm oil. But where's the profit in that?
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Post by nomad on Jul 2, 2014 11:19:13 GMT -8
Homo Sapiens love to destroy their environment and all the flora and fauna it contains, even if it is to sustain their out of control populations, which is stupid really, because when its all gone, which will be sooner rather than later what will their future generations exist on. Western governments are just as greedy. Look at the giant Freeport mine in West Papua run by a American company. It has destroyed the Carstensz area. The rivers are all polluted in this region and the impact on the Papuans has been disastrous.
Peter.
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Post by krupten on Jul 3, 2014 20:37:20 GMT -8
Hi Olivier - First - Most Government officials are corrupt - second religion runs state - third - if you want to know what is happening how about the reason West Papua ( A concession of words by the way to make is appear that the Island is one homogenous country) is deforesting? Try not only palm oil but to INTRODUCE tens of thousands of families from Java into the area so that the muslims have the majority. Why not let people know that this massive transmisgrasi is used as a passive form of genocide? That the country and its bent is to remove all non muslims? That the Governments mandate is to make money for the lackies that form it? I am concerned about situations like the young Christian girls (10 and 11 years old) that had gasoline poured on them then set alight in Makassar - the thousand of West Papuan indigenous people that are being slaughtered in a lascivious plan to eradicate them without using the 50 caliber machine guns that the army used to use to do that prior to the 80's and 90's. I am sorry about the rant - but if ones is looking at reality - then pull away the window dressing and see the horror's that is the everyday reality that is NOT reported. Palm oil - sustainable or not makes money with little work for the planatations and like the MALAY - they tell you there are still trees in Malaysia - but what they don't say - is that its ONLY ONE KIND. They too are going all over the world in tropical countries on all the continents to plant PALM OIL. As collectors or environmentalists - we are totally emasculated from anything we can do - Goverments are elected to fulfill their own agendas - NOT of those who voted or elected them.
SUSTAINABLE PALM OIL is like a holy grail or unicorn - nice use of ones imagination.
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