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Post by exoticimports on May 21, 2014 9:41:49 GMT -8
Serious collectors, to me, are those that brave the hardships of field work, then do the bench work, then publish or provide information to be published.
The point I was trying to make in my last post is that when I was a kid out collecting I could go where I wanted and collect. Go ahead today and try to collect on Nature Conservancy or other such land- chances are not only will you be kicked out, you'll be arrested. You could collect in national parks or state parks or wherever because nobody really cared; it may have been illegal then, but nobody knew it, and park rangers were more likely to be helpful than in a mind for a bust. Back then CITES was about saving endangered animals, not about politics and bureaucracy. You could collect in Mexico. Most countries didn't give a damn if you collected bugs- now it's a crime. When I wanted a permit to collect in Belize I got it faxed to my room in less than an hour. Good luck to private (not associated w/ museums) collectors getting permits anywhere...and don't bother asking for museum affiliation unless you have a PhD in Entomology and are part of the "in crowd." And while we're at it, if you want to publish a new species (or whatever) you had definitely be part of the "in crowd" particularly in USA!
Of course, back when I was a kid we wore knives on our belts and took our guns to school. We could buy "assault rifles" at Woolworth's, Kmart and Macy's in the mall. We could buy Caimans and piranha for pets...now you can't even have some pythons in NY!
So my advice to the youth: don't bother collecting bugs. Don't bother doing anything. Get a cushy government job with a pension, sit back, and relax.
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Post by joee30 on May 21, 2014 9:43:31 GMT -8
Salutations to all on this great forum. I can agree with many of the posts on here and in all honesty, it can be remedied by teaching kids about how awesome insects are and that not all bugs are "yukky, gross, ect." I also wholeheartedly agree with Jshuey on not putting the blame on the nature conservancy for the way people think about insect collecting. The nature conservancy has has graciously given me and my colleagues permission to collect in many of their preserves, and have been very helpful. I would say NABA is bad with putting collectors down, but even then, there are many people that I've met that were NABA members and they tagged along during a couple of collecting trips and photographed butterflies before they were collected for the UNR museum of natural history. Honestly, the resistance I have run into have been by a couple of bird watchers, and many yuppie types. lol As for having a Steve Irwin of entomology, Tom should put more of his informative videos on here. Being that I learned quite a lot from Tom since I've been stationed in TN. This is my buddy colin. He started collecting insects at the tender age of 17. It's never too late to start.
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Post by nomad on May 21, 2014 9:43:42 GMT -8
Many of the larger collections I have seen are owned by collectors of the age bracket I have mentioned above, probably because they have been interested over a long period. Although of this age, I might exclude myself, because my collection is quite modest compared too many that I have seen. Quite small in fact. I am sure many young collectors have large collections such as some of the members here and I expect those that have just started this fascinating hobby will aspire to forming a good collection. Surely there were many more collectors in the 19th and early 20th century. There were 3000 in Britain during the 19th century compared to a much smaller amount today. Up to the 1960's there were still many more field collectors in Britain than today. With the rise of the conservation movement, it was deemed unacceptable to roam the British countryside with a net and today there are just a handful of collectors that do so, perhaps the last to weld a net in blighty. However many British collectors collect a range of the world's butterflies and there are some really amazing collections. What remains to be seen if the younger generation of Britain today will continue to collect butterflies in the future.
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Post by nomad on May 21, 2014 9:56:10 GMT -8
I think the Steve Irwin of Entomology already exists down under, or should I say the Bear Gylls of Entomology and he has just shared some of his remarkable captures on here.
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Post by nomihoudai on May 21, 2014 10:06:13 GMT -8
That didn't really explain anything, you just rewrote the sentence Anyway, the reason why I asked is that I suspected that unrealistic exigences might follow. Of course a young collector does not have a large collection, it is in the progress of building up. Also I cannot agree to anything negative stated here. The reality is (at least how I perceive it): - I do find more things to buy than I could ever afford. - Collections from remote places become available on a regular basis, e.g. Laos, Bhutan, etc. (except the "no-go countries"). - There is youth clubs about entomology nowadays. There is one in our local natural history museum and I sometimes have a talk there to guide kids between 9 and 16. - Wealthy people affording expeditions do exist, for example Thomas Witt in Germany, but he will obviously keep the stuff you catch for his private collection. - Money for regular expeditions is available from research grants. Again, the point is not that you will get it for your own collection at home. - Has there ever been a time where you got butterflies from far and remote places for little money? I doubt.
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Post by nomad on May 21, 2014 10:17:25 GMT -8
" has there been a time when you have got butterflies from far and remote places for little money , I doubt ". Not all butterflies from those remote places are rare and some can be bought quite cheaply, in fact I recently got some for free.
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Post by andy on May 21, 2014 10:34:59 GMT -8
I must agree that there appears to be a decline in the amount of people collecting insects which have a scientific value.
I do not think it will disappear completely unless each country places a total ban on collecting.
We only need to look at Oology and the Jourdain society to see what happens when laws are set to stop what others find non PC.
I do think that buying your specimens from dealers will increase for the few who will still be collecting in years to come.
Either that or the collectors will go underground and a 'new society' will form.
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Post by monasteria on May 21, 2014 11:09:09 GMT -8
Interesting thoughts. To me, a "serious" collector is someone who is really interested in entomology and the scientific aspects of the species he (or she) owns or even beyond that. Someone who buys butterflies just because they are "pretty" and a nice decoration for their home is also a collector, but I wouldn't call him serious. If you do field collecting or not has nothing to do with that issue in my opinion. Not anybody is able to do that. It also depends on what your collecting scheme is. If you are mainly interested in the fauna of PNG and live in europe for example, you need a lot of time, money and an understanding wife.
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Post by beetlehorn on May 21, 2014 13:09:26 GMT -8
In my humble opinion, a "serious collector" is anyone with a true passion for this activity, whether it be field collected bugs, bought specimens, professional entomologist, or a hobbyist putting together a private collection, anyone that rears insects, young or old, male or female. You wouldn't put forth the effort to spread, label, catalog, and display specimens if you were not serious about it. I personally do much field work, and I occasionally do a presentation for small groups, especially younger people,(last fall I did one for the local Girl Scouts). I buy specimens online occasionally, but I prefer to collect my own if the chance comes. There are insects I will never be able to catch myself, simply because I don't have the time, and money. I work full time, and support a family, so the chances of me getting to go collect insects in Africa (for example) are extremely slim, but I do have several specimens from that continent, thanks to online dealers. So do I consider myself as a serious collector....? Yes! The reason I started this thread is to see if anyone else has noticed a declining trend towards insect collecting, and I should have elaborated more in regards to such a trend in all aspects, not just online trading. All of the responses have covered that for me though, and I appreciate it. I am planning on taking some more small groups collecting this summer, and just acquired permission to take some young folks blacklighting on some state land. I will also correspond with the local university to take some entomology students out as well. I try to do what I can for the hobby/activity whenever I can, and will hopefully post some more videos when I get them put together. Hopefully they will add to the spark of interest for some new to the hobby.
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Post by lepidofrance on May 21, 2014 14:01:23 GMT -8
With the rise of the conservation movement, it was deemed unacceptable to roam the British countryside with a net and today there are just a handful of collectors that do so, perhaps the last to weld a net in blighty. The next time you will consider collecting handling your butterfly net in the UK, wear a jacket or a shirt where it will be written very legibly: " Field Lab against Malaria, Dengue and Chickunguya" or " Research and Fight Unit against Mosquitoes and Simulium". I'm sure the locals will be less hostile despite ambient conservationist ideology. That said, do not hesitate to come and collect in France (excluding National Parks)! You are welcome! I will indicate gladly friendly corners and rich in butterflies. And sailing back to the British Islands to Dover or Portsmouth, on the ferry, you can buy Peat Whisky cheaper than in Britain!
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2014 0:40:40 GMT -8
"That said, do not hesitate to come and collect in France (excluding National Parks)! You are welcome! I will indicate gladly friendly corners and rich in butterflies"
My Son and a friend and I are planning a trip to Dordogne in late june 2015, I hear the attitude to collecting is much more relaxed there and we will be in the middle of nowhere, JMG, what butterflies can we expect to find there at that time of year.
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Post by lepidofrance on May 22, 2014 1:28:13 GMT -8
My Son and a friend and I are planning a trip to Dordogne in late june 2015, I hear the attitude to collecting is much more relaxed there and we will be in the middle of nowhere, JMG, what butterflies can we expect to find there at that time of year. About Dordogne, see our "post" about the butterflies of "Périgord vert" : www.lepido-france.fr/2013/10/evolution-des-populations-de-rhopaloceres-en-perigord-vert-ete-2013/Beautiful landscape, many castles and old villages, very good food, wines and still many remote and forested areas with butterflies !!
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Post by ash on May 22, 2014 4:28:37 GMT -8
It is interesting that people have observed that insect collecting was dwindling. In contrast, I know more collectors now than I ever did, both field collectors locally and also insect traders around the world. Perhaps that is because of the internet. With human population on the rise I tend to feel there are more and more people interested in just about anything, even if the per capita proportions change. So long as we can put up a light trap and have a night like this: My friends and I will keep on keeping on. Ash
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Post by nostrodamus on May 22, 2014 4:49:15 GMT -8
What about the problem " the collecting itself " ?
Every year more and more restrictions, in a lot of European countries it's already forbidden to collect , more will follow in the future...
so that will be the main concern for collectors in the future I guess...
David
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2014 5:18:08 GMT -8
About Dordogne, see our "post" about the butterflies of "Périgord vert"
All very exiting, can't wait, is maculinea arion found in Dordogne?
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