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Post by beetlehorn on May 18, 2014 0:48:13 GMT -8
In the past few years I have noticed somewhat of a decline in this hobby/activity. Insect dealers are fewer, and to put it frankly are not getting any younger. Online sales such as ebay seem to be dwindling to a degree, and the public's view of collectors is more negative than ever! Given this trend, it looks like the hobby will be dead in the next ten years or so, at least in the US. Am I looking at this in a negative way, or is there anyone else that has seen the same?
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Post by vgashtarov on May 18, 2014 1:17:30 GMT -8
Sure in the past it was much more "modern" to collect insects. It was never really popular in my country even in the past. Anyway it is quite popular in rest of Europe, esp. Central and Northern Europe. One of the most powerful Lepidopterological Society is in Finland. They have around 1000 registered members and may be another 1000 non registered. Any way I am really happy I still live in a country, where collecting is not forbidden as in many other EU (also) countries. When this happened I will probably cut my vein's with non sharp piece of glass !
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Post by mantisboy on May 18, 2014 5:40:17 GMT -8
Well, as long as I'm still here, there will be at least one collector in the U. S.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2014 9:45:17 GMT -8
Tom, you are right to be concerned about the future of insect collecting and while I don't see it dying out completely the signs are worrying. First of all we live in an age where electronic gadgetry and instant gratification are all the rage not wandering about the countryside collecting bugs. Secondly it is very un PC to collect and "destroy" in our so called modern enlightened age but we keep building, destroying and raping the natural world at an alarming rate as long as there is money to be made. Thirdly I have noticed at insect fairs I have attended over the years that the pendulum has swung far away from collecting deadstock more to buying insects such as beetles, spiders and scorpions for pets and fairs are flooded by stalls selling these, yes there are still some serious dealers but they have stopped by and large in making enough money to cover their costs, here in the UK anyway, I think things are better at the larger European fairs and Tokyo.Fourthly I think, in the main, that the younger generation are growing up in ignorance of the natural world as they are taught more trendy things at school which are more liberal and "with the times" so the new genetations of entomologists are getting less and less.
In general, but not always, on ebay and other internet sources the things which are sold are mostly of no interest to the experienced collector who has been doing this for years and already has most of what is on offer, then there is the bidding war that ensues causing people to pay more than they want.
It's not all doom and gloom though, I find that most insect fairs are still well attended and there are still plenty of young people about, some buying deadstock, there are still some decent traders out there selling seldom seen stuff, the fairs in Europe sell fantastic things, and then there are the Japanese who quite frankly put some of us to shame with their vigour and the way they obtain rarities.
Yes it is concerning that in 20 years time the picture for collectors is quite a sorry one, through the ignorance of those who make the laws recognising that we are any easy target and they can continue to obliterate the countryside to make money while they have a readymade scapegoat to blame, get the ignorant public onside and divert their attention away from the real issues of habitat destruction. I really do think that those of us who do still collect, catalogue and care about this hobby have a duty to do all in our power to make sure that this, the king of all hobbies and passtimes does not sink into oblivion but retains a base where we can continue our pursuits for as long as we can.
Dunc
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Post by beetlehorn on May 18, 2014 12:14:08 GMT -8
WOW Dunc! That was one of the best threads Iv'e ever read, especially on this subject. I was wondering if anyone else has noticed what I have. One major factor in collecting especially here in the US are the silly regulations we have to endure due to US Fish and Wildlife. Iv'e heard some real bad stories, and that has really affected the hobby for me. They should go after the real culprits, (big time contractors). What you said about destroying natural habitat rings true here as well. Places where I used to go collecting when I was young are now subdivisions and shopping malls, and it goes on and on at an alarming rate. Countries like Japan are much more collector friendly, and I believe it is directly linked to their heritage.
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Post by beetlehorn on May 18, 2014 12:14:38 GMT -8
WOW Dunc! That was one of the best threads Iv'e ever read, especially on this subject. I was wondering if anyone else has noticed what I have. One major factor in collecting especially here in the US are the silly regulations we have to endure due to US Fish and Wildlife. Iv'e heard some real bad stories, and that has really affected the hobby for me. They should go after the real culprits, (big time contractors). What you said about destroying natural habitat rings true here as well. Places where I used to go collecting when I was young are now subdivisions and shopping malls, and it goes on and on at an alarming rate. Countries like Japan are much more collector friendly, and I believe it is directly linked to their heritage.
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Post by lordpandarus on May 18, 2014 12:39:15 GMT -8
I was way harder to collect before the Internet (online deales and ebay) .Even if it slows down a bit i don;t see it dying, with new dealers and buyers replacing older ones
Before the internet , you knew maybe 2-3 addresses you stumbled on by pure luck to buy specimens
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Post by beetlehorn on May 18, 2014 13:46:29 GMT -8
I will have to admit that the internet has really boosted the hobby for most of us. I suppose what I am seeing is more related to dealers, and collectors here in the US. Since I started collecting again I noticed that dealers such as the Butterfly House? (Im' not sure what it was called) in New York, Insects International in Texas, and several smaller dealers have gone out of business. Other than importing specimens from foreign dealers, the trade is dwindling here. One branch of Bioquip has fairly recently started to sell specimens.
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Post by boghaunter1 on May 18, 2014 17:59:24 GMT -8
Yes... very well stated Dunc.... most of our younger generations now suffer from "nature deprivation syndrome"... being completely cut off (& not giving a damn, frankly) from physical nature... Funny though how people, in increasing numbers, flock to the lake & the cabin on weekends. I love being out in the woods & meadows on a beautiful summers day collecting bugs... totally recharges my batteries & lifts my spirits... honestly nothing else I can be doing compares with the excitement of a new discovery in the amazing world of insects. Yes... since the advent of the internet collecting insects has become much more interesting... I have yet to NOT find some new insect that I want, every time I log on the net, that I would love to add to my collection... & yes sometimes you have to pay for them... all of life is a competition... & any people that can afford to buy bugs for display & appreciation alone are very rich indeed compared to most of the people on this planet... no offence to anyone, but I have yet to meet even a veteran collector who has all the common stuff already... haha Lastly sites like this excellent one enable such instant, worldwide communication with like minded collectors that I find endlessly fascinating. For most of my collecting yrs., I have, with the exception of my mentor R. Hooper, being doing it solo... I look forward to keeping up with these forums as regularily as I can. You will have to pry my net handle out of my cold, dead hands before I give it up... John K.
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Post by prillbug4 on May 18, 2014 18:09:28 GMT -8
I just go out and collect beetles and moths, usually with a permit. It's rather fun, and I don't care how the public looks at it. If they want to think that I'm crazy, then let them. I'm still trying to collect all the beetle species from Illinois. Jeff Prill
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Post by monasteria on May 19, 2014 1:14:14 GMT -8
In this thread, many important points have been said regarding the situation of the hobby: The unwinnable battle against electronic gadgets, the strict laws (which do not always make sense) and the ridiculous double standards of the society when it comes to habitat destruction vs. the influence of collectors. But one thing has not been told yet: In my opinion, the number of collectors who are able to put money in their hobby, is decreasing. If you are looking at other hobbies, that phenomenon is obvious: For example in the antique toys market (I also collect Siku model cars a little bit), the prices are falling. The only models which are still selling at high prices are mint boxed rarities. Transferred to the insect collecting hobby, it means that rare specimens in very good quality will always find a buyer, also at a high price level, but the general market will get smaller.
The big issue in that case is in my opinion, that the kids which don't learn to appreciate the nature and its creatures, will never be able to develop an "awareness" for it and subsequently they will not have a big interest in saving and preserving their environment when they are grown up.
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Post by wollastoni on May 19, 2014 3:04:41 GMT -8
Agree with most of posts here BUT I would like to give a little bit of optimism here : - insectfairs in Europe and Japan are still FULL - ebay insect auctions are still very popular - there are some young insect dealers (Steeve Collard, Jens Jakusch, Anton Kozlov...) - those who are on facebook can witness how many young collectors there are - the insect collecting in Asia seems booming - insect websites have many visitors (around 200 visitors per day on mine)
+ with blogs, forums, social networks, websites we can now attract many future entomologists !
So guys stop complaining, open all of you a blog to explain to the young generation how entomology changed your life and made you happy. Let's all build a stronger community.
I would say the only real threat to entomology is those stupid legislations indeed. But except PNG and India, it is still rather easy to find material from most of countries.
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Post by exoticimports on May 19, 2014 5:33:28 GMT -8
I would NOT recommend to a youth in USA to start a serious passion in insects. 1. When I was a kid you could collect just about anywhere worldwide. Now even in USA collecting is banned in too many places. 2. The Butterflies Through Binocular and Nature Conservancy types have made killing poor bugs a societal no-no. 3. Foreign collecting and export laws, US Import laws and the asinine Lacey Act are killing research. It's just too difficult. 4. USFWS's overly aggressive attacks leave grave concern should one make a mistake. 5. It is very difficult to find a depository for a collection (particularly papered specimens). Sure you can give it to the local museum and in five years it will be gone. But good luck getting an internationally renowned museum to take your collection.
Nor should an American kid collect guns, raise reptiles or amphibians, or do anything mildly interesting. There are just too many laws and rules, and more will only be piled on. We're getting just what the US government wants- a bunch of numb game-playing automatons.
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Post by lepman1256 on May 19, 2014 6:03:20 GMT -8
Many weekends per year my wife and I are out in the public selling our finished butterfly and insect frames at craft fairs and reptile shows. I find tremendous interest in reptiles by the young as a direct result of a sort of subculture that prevails. Many youngsters find their interest nurtured by parents and friends within the subculture. To some degree, there is a crossover into insect fascination that I see being fostered by the parents. At many craft shows we hear stories of where the spark of interest started in the classroom, with a teacher sharing the process of how the caterpillar morphs into a butterfly or moth, by the whole class raising a batch of monarchs, painted ladies or other species. In one or two cases we have heard about the child going on to college with entomology becoming their major. I see plenty of interest out there, whether it continues is hard to say. I will say that as people travel the world more and more, certain precautions by the government should be seen as necessary to prevent invasive species from running rampant in any region.
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Post by wingedwishes on May 19, 2014 7:45:57 GMT -8
I agree and disagree due to the following:
1. Regulations are out of control and are written by those without knowledge. Put an actual entomologist on the committee to write regulations and both nature and the hobbyist will be better off.
2. Reach out to the young. We fail miserably at this and so do many other science fields. If a kid feels the "brush off" from an expert, he/she will not pursue it. Also, if those like myself (an admitted non expert hobbyist) feel insulted because we do not have a degree, the following will happen: Newbies won't be there to purchase common insects and suppliers will not stock them. The indigenous people won't collect them and it will not be worth it to them to collect only rare things. Rare stuff then is only available to those who have the money to make special trips to collect. The spiral will continue. Insect collecting, like any hobby, needs new blood recruited or it will spiral down.
3. I am making money in this hobby. I am not rich but my business has nearly doubled in the past year. This is because people like Miguel Serrano have helped educate me and guide me AND because I has a nice group of people who come to me to learn and buy. More often to learn but as more people visit, more people buy. I provide pinning boards and inexpensive insects to kids to develop the interest.
4. WE NEED AN ENTOMOLOGIC STEVE IRWIN. No explanation needed here. Perhaps we need a series of You Tube videos showing happy people on expeditions educating as the video plays. Maybe this exists already but I have not found a insect only youtube channel.
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