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Post by wingedwishes on Apr 8, 2014 5:07:38 GMT -8
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mygos
Full Member
Posts: 230
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Post by mygos on Apr 8, 2014 7:34:49 GMT -8
It is impossible for me in France to get access to your product with the link provided, so it can probably be improved ...
A+, Michel
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Post by wollastoni on Apr 8, 2014 8:20:19 GMT -8
My comments : - on the product : you must improve spreading, quality of specimens, collecting data, simpler frame to reach a higher price - on the listing : - add the family name (Nymphalidae) in the title to be better filtered by www.collector-secret.com - add a fix international shipping price (I don't know if the shipping 10 USD or 100 USD so I would never bid on it) - add the collecting data : important - this sentence "Butterflies are farm raised and are cruelty free" is a nonsense/lie (I don't think these butterflies died naturally) and a direct attack to many field entomologists The rest is very ok. Hope you will be happy with your ebay sales Hope it will help you |
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Post by wingedwishes on Apr 8, 2014 10:23:25 GMT -8
By definition, they are cruelty free. I am not sure how this is an affront. I never stated they died naturally. I think I understand what you mean BUT: Cruelty, by its definitive elements, involves causing great pain and/or knowingly enjoying the pain being caused. Humane euthanasia is by definition not cruel. It is a semantics ploy but it is true.
Adding the family name is very good advice and I will certainly change that. BUT the collecting data other than country and date is usually what is provided to me.
I completely agree on the spreading - I see the doxocopa drooping.
I was not going to do international shipping since I did not want any buyer to have to worry about permits and most frame buyers are in the USA. I may put the common disclaimer that others use which states that I am not responsible for another countries import regulations.
I also need clarification on what is meant by a simpler frame. Black? Solid color? I no longer use a white background as sales skyrocketed when fabrics or prints were used at the local market. A Chinese Dollar Store in the same market sells $15 frames with white backgrounds. I sell something similar with patterned backgrounds for twice the price and sell many more of them.
I am trying to translate my success from the local market onto Ebay. Much of the success has come from interacting with people which is not the seemingly cold and sterile environment of Ebay. We have groups of kids who come to us regularly to talk plants, insect stories and school. I really enjoy that.
Thanks very much Wollastoni. I am a regular user of your site and I value your opinion.
Michel - I don't know why the link will not work for you. I suppose I have to allow international shipping for you to be able to see it? Thanks for trying to view it anyway.
Also - the Ebay price is several dollars less than the price I have been getting. I may have to just stick to what has been working for me and that is customer interaction. The really crazy thing is...... I am an agoraphobe! Go figure.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Apr 8, 2014 10:26:29 GMT -8
- this sentence "Butterflies are farm raised and are cruelty free" is a nonsense/lie (I don't think these butterflies died naturally) and a direct attack to many field entomologists I must agree with this totally. 99% of framing butterflies are wild caught. It just isn't economical to farm them. I have a farm here for study purposes, and wages alone are almost $1,000 per month. While wages in less developed countries than Thailand may be considerably cheaper the overall cost of farming butterflies for framing is way higher than the cost of buying the same species wild caught. Farming can only be cost effective for live butterflies for release or sale of pupae, or when breeding high value species (which is generally not commercially practical anyway). For istance I bred Papilio bianor stockleyi which no-one had done before, and obtained very nice females as a result. However there is an issue with selling such specimens, as selling them in numbers would cause their value to crash, and thus make breeding them uneconomical. I have seen websites offering butterflies that claim to be farmed or killed humanely, and to be honest I just close those websites, as I know the statement is a load of rubbish. Adam. |
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Post by wingedwishes on Apr 8, 2014 10:44:13 GMT -8
I personally know the person who operates the farm where I get most of my Central American leps. His brother is one of my closest friends. I could perhaps change farmed to farmed/ranched and the definition would be more accurate. BTW - I farm 8 "common" species myself. They are in enclosures all over the house and yard. Those which I do not release are humanely euthanized. I average $1,400 a month in sales and so this, with the addition of bird farming (another $800 a month) makes it worthwhile to me.
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Post by wingedwishes on Apr 8, 2014 10:51:24 GMT -8
In case anyone is curious, this past year we have been raising:
Danaus plexippus
Agraulis vanillae
Heliconius charitonia
Actias luna
Antheraea polyphemus
Phoebis philea
Battus polydamus
Hylophora cecropia
This winter killed several of my most important host plants and has put a big crimp in our production for the moment.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Apr 8, 2014 13:58:21 GMT -8
I personally know the person who operates the farm where I get most of my Central American leps. His brother is one of my closest friends. I could perhaps change farmed to farmed/ranched and the definition would be more accurate. BTW - I farm 8 "common" species myself. They are in enclosures all over the house and yard. Those which I do not release are humanely euthanized. I average $1,400 a month in sales and so this, with the addition of bird farming (another $800 a month) makes it worthwhile to me. Ok, I believe that you do get farmed/ranched material for framing. It certainly couldn't be done commercially in SE Asia when wild caught specimens are much cheaper than the same farmed species. For example the local sellers in Phrae sell A1 wild caught Papilio memnon male for 10-15 cents each. It just wouldn't be possible to sell farmed specimens for that price. Never mind wages, the cost of growing enough foodplants to produce them in commercial numbers is too high, as the large larvae eat so much Citrus and slow recovery time means a huge number of plants is needed to produce them in reasonable numbers. Anyway, why bother when catchers can collect A1 specimens more quickly than they can be bred? Adam. PS. I would recommend that you back up your "farmed" statement with more substantial evidence, as many potential customers just won't believe a statement of the type currently on the listing. |
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Post by wingedwishes on Apr 8, 2014 17:01:13 GMT -8
I do have photos of the farming outfits. I wish I knew how to embed them in the text of the listing. Can anyone advise on how to do this? It does not allow you to post links.
I live in Florida. Citrus is EVERYWHERE. I have 8 citrus trees over 20' tall. When we were producing Papilio cresphontes, we would pull fruit off of the trees as it formed so that more energy was spent on leaf production.
I am fortunate enough to have my bird farming friends living on big sections of land. We have milkweed covering a lot of space that was sitting fallow. The pipe vine and cassia were devastated by the winter this year but it looks like the passion vines are rebounding. There are a couple of other places in Florida which I have visited and seen the operation selling ova to pupa.
I could collect A1 but if I keep from flooding the market as you mentioned, I can go ex-pupa though only with local stuff..
I know what you mean Adam about memnon. I got 100 maacki at a quarter dollar each with significant wear years ago. I think I still have them but they are too beat up to use in a frame. I may put them in jewelry just to keep from tossing them.
Do I still collect wild? Sure. There are a few things I collect from the wild to inject new blood. There are a few others I collect for myself. I do feed and harvest local spiders and even Lubber grasshoppers. I house several hundred Lubbers in terrariums right now. They are easy to feed and look nice framed.
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Post by africaone on Apr 8, 2014 22:34:26 GMT -8
"Butterflies are farm raised and are cruelty free" .... for Charaxes etesipe  |
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Post by lepman1256 on Apr 8, 2014 23:14:37 GMT -8
I have been working with butterflies off and on for about 40 years. I also sell framed butterflies and other specimens here in Florida. I think that your frame looks acceptable for the price your asking. Many longtime collectors will criticize the pinning out look of your butterflies, but trust me they look better than the over stretched wings that some "artists " do. I have always felt that time is money in that one should not waste either. I've tried selling on ebay with much nicer frames, and found it a waste of my time. A "market" is usually where people want it for next to nothing. If you are able, I would start selling at local craft shows. You will usually get a good crowd that will appreciate what they are looking at. I have found that most things are relative in life. If you try a well established show that costs a bit, you usually will get better results. The struggling economy plays a factor as does the weather. Good luck!
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Post by wollastoni on Apr 9, 2014 2:58:26 GMT -8
wingedwishes > I would personaly remove the part "are cruelty free".
I don't think the Charaxes etesipe is ranched or farmed.
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Post by wingedwishes on Apr 9, 2014 3:53:04 GMT -8
I was going to put two Doxocopa as I usually do with one showing the verso but found that I had run out of them. To be honest, I copied the part about cruelty from other sellers who are successful. Though I think it is accurate to the definition, I don't care about the word either way as it is often misdefined. For example - Is it cruel for a shark to eat an animal? Some would say it is cruel for a person to eat an animal. That animal died naturally so would you rather die a natural death being eaten by a shark or by lethal injection? Most people assume a natural and cruelty free death to be pleasant. How about a natural death with liver failure or a heart attack. I intentionally did not use natural death in my item description. I was unaware of the negative connotative feelings of the word cruelty and will not use it with future items.
The market where I sell has artists as well and most people understand that they are not going to buy for garage sale prices. I am looking into art shows right now.
Thank you all very much for the thoughts and help.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Apr 9, 2014 6:39:44 GMT -8
You are very lucky to have plenty of 'safe' Citrus trees available to rear larvae on. All Citrus here in Thailand is heavily treated with insecticides, and is useless for rearing larvae. I have to grow all my plants myself, mostly from seed (min 2 years before they are large enough to use for egg laying) but also from cuttings. Sometimes I buy plants in pots, but they have to be de-potted, all the soil washed off and then re-potted in pesticide free soil and then I have to wait a minimum of 6 months before the systemic insecticides they have been treated with (mixed in the soil) lose their toxicity.
Adam.
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Post by wingedwishes on Apr 9, 2014 7:36:13 GMT -8
Sounds like a very potent insecticide Adam! I do have to have little triangular paper sticky tents to trap flies so the state can monitor if there are any bad bugs such as the Mediterranean fruit fly. Too bad the USA does not allow for certain live insects to be imported.
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