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Post by admin on Jan 29, 2014 11:53:11 GMT -8
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Post by timsbugs on Jan 29, 2014 14:10:43 GMT -8
It would be very sad if we lost that treasure! I visited Mt Rosario in 2007 and back then you could clearly see the effects of logging. Attachment DeletedThis is a picture taken from Mt Rosario of the closest mountain, not much left, 7 years ago. Tim |
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Post by timsbugs on Jan 29, 2014 14:10:56 GMT -8
It would be very sad if we lost that treasure! I visited Mt Rosario in 2007 and back then you could clearly see the effects of logging. Attachment Deleted This is a picture taken from Mt Rosario of the closest mountain, not much left, 7 years ago. Tim |
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Post by timsbugs on Jan 29, 2014 14:15:16 GMT -8
It was an amazing site to see!  Tim |
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Post by timsbugs on Jan 29, 2014 14:19:00 GMT -8
I was fortunate to be there, on one of the few days every year, that the sun shines! Truly one of the highlights of my life.  Tim |
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Post by myotis on Jan 29, 2014 16:58:36 GMT -8
Maybe someone here can help me out with this. These reports often blame the monarch decline on GMO crops. How on earth can GMO crops have any effect on milkweed? I live in the northern midwest out in the country and have for most of my life. I live out in the country. My grandparents own a farm. We are surrounded by corn and soybean fields. I have never seen milkweed growing out in the fields mixed with GMO crops. (nearly all field corn is GMO these days) It is a perennial. The weeds in farm fields are usually non-native annuals that easily grow in disturbed ground. I used to tromp around ditches, wood edges, wetland edges and fence rows as a kid looking for monarch caterpillars. Today, there is just as much milkweed as when I was a kid, but much fewer monarchs.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2014 17:53:15 GMT -8
I have noticed they same thing. I have lived in rural areas all my life and I can say without a doubt that there are fewer butterflies of almost all species now compared back thirty years ago. In my area I cant tell what has really changed in the environment. There is no real shortage of habitat or host plants. The one thing I do know for sure is there are not as many butterflies. Or maybe I spend too much time indoors at my job.
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Post by africaone on Jan 29, 2014 22:44:03 GMT -8
gmo is coupled with use of chemical  Also I seen afew years ago a report(from Australia) that Gmo contamined wild plant (trough fecondation by bees and insect) and this affected population of some Lepidoptera GMo is real nightmare for the future despite campain by Monsanto and allied that explained it is for the benefit of humanity (in fact just benefit for their pockets) |
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Post by myotis on Jan 30, 2014 3:18:52 GMT -8
GMO crops are genetically modified so that they are resistant to glyphosphate, a non selective herbicide. Roundup is the brand made by Monsanto although numerous companies make their own version. (Bonide-Kills-All) This allows farmers to spray their fields and kill everything but their resistant crop, which is attractive to them by reducing the amount of tilling and spraying other types of herbicides (broadleaf or grass only etc) Once again, my question is how can this affect milkweed populations? I am not a farmer and could really care less about GMOs, I have read information saying everything from they will kill us all to that they are harmless. But either-way, I care about the butterflies. Humans have a tendency to instantly blame a single bogeyman. We did it with colony collapse in honeybees and are now finding out that GMOs are not to blame. I guess my concern is that if we put all our effort into going after the wrong culprit, it won't be helping the monarchs.
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Post by wingedwishes on Jan 30, 2014 6:57:54 GMT -8
Milkweed often does grow in crop fields which are located in the migration lanes. This larval food plant cannot now survive in those fields which are treated with herbicides. The herbicide run off does go into ditches. Ditches do not have the life they used to have twenty years ago. This means a more barren area for this lep to try to find food for its larvae. This coupled with logging in their wintering grounds and a few bad weather years could mean the end of their migration. This does not mean an end to the species. Non migrating ones are well establised in other regions such as the Bahamas, Florida, Hawaii, and so on.
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Post by jshuey on Jan 30, 2014 7:01:49 GMT -8
Maybe someone here can help me out with this. These reports often blame the monarch decline on GMO crops. How on earth can GMO crops have any effect on milkweed? I live in the northern midwest out in the country and have for most of my life. I live out in the country. My grandparents own a farm. We are surrounded by corn and soybean fields. I have never seen milkweed growing out in the fields mixed with GMO crops. (nearly all field corn is GMO these days) It is a perennial. The weeds in farm fields are usually non-native annuals that easily grow in disturbed ground. I used to tromp around ditches, wood edges, wetland edges and fence rows as a kid looking for monarch caterpillars. Today, there is just as much milkweed as when I was a kid, but much fewer monarchs. There are two potentials issues in play here. First you don't see milkweed growing in soybean and corn fields because of the use of no-till systems and GMO crops. Both crops are resistant to glyphosate (the active ingredient in products such as round up, and farmers use herbicide at least two times each season within the fields. Hence all you see are annual weeds that can quickly grow and set seeds between glyphosate treatments. Perennial plants like milkweeds, which can live for a few decades are killed out. When I grew up, crop fields were in fact quite weedy, and inter-row plowing was really the only control method that farmers used. This resulted in corn fields that had an "understory" of weeds, including milkweed and other longer-lived plants. Fence rows and field edges were really weedy, and often abounded with milkweeds back then. The second potential issue is about "new age insecticides" - various types of neonicotinoids. These passed all their human health tests with flying colors, but recent research shows that they have a potentially huge ecological impact - especially on pollinators. For example, soybean seeds are coated with a neonicotinoid before planting. There is a suspicion that the insecticides remain in the plants, and that bees visiting the flowers are impacted by residual neonicotinoids in the nectar. As an aside, I treated a white ash tree in my yard with a neonicotinoid last year to protect against emerald ash borer. I had virtually no breeding butterflies in my year during the summer - especially noticeable was the complete absence of Aterocampa celtis and clyton, which are typically abundant on the hackberry trees located about 50 meters away. Did pollen from the ash send neonicotinoids across to the leaves of the hackberry trees? I don't know, but I missed my Asterocampa! Neonicotinoids have become the most widely used class of insecticide in the US - they are now banned in some EU countries. We are just beginning to understand their non-target impacts to other insects. If I had to place my bets, I would blame them for the general decline of pollinators, including Monarchs, in the central US - an area where agriculture is king, and Neonicotinoids rule! John |
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Post by myotis on Jan 30, 2014 7:09:41 GMT -8
Wingedwishes- One of the reasons I have a hard time buying this is my own experience. Have you seen milkweed in crop fields? I seldom do and it would never survive there anyways as corn will outgrow them and not let them get any light. As I stated before, A syriaca is very common in field edges, pastures, and ditches around here, but farmers don't spray those and are careful not to spray on windy days (herbicides aren't cheap) Glyphosphate (Round Up) does not kill by run off. It is a foliage spray, if it doesn't get on the leaves, the plant won't die. When it hits the ground it breaks down.
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Post by nomad on Jan 30, 2014 10:52:55 GMT -8
It is very sad that we cannot even safeguard this important refuge and spectacle.  |
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Post by jonathan on Jan 30, 2014 12:05:55 GMT -8
What a sad story!!
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rjb
Full Member
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Post by rjb on Jan 30, 2014 17:25:33 GMT -8
I'm no expert on this subject but as I recall the issue with genetically modified corn and Monarchs was about the corn that contained BT toxin. The original GM corn had a gene that caused the corn to produce its own pesticide (the one produced by the bacterium Bacillus thuringiensis thus BT toxin). People were worried that the pollen from the corn, containing the toxin would cover the milkweed plants and be eaten by the caterpillars, killing them. Studies at the time concluded that the caterpillars were having no problem.
The question of whether the GM corn that is "roundup-ready" hurts monarchs is different and is more of a stretch. Certainly a survey of milkweed population should resolve whether the current GM corn has resulted in less milkweed, which was already confined to the areas outside the cornfield anyway.
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