norton
Junior Member
Posts: 47
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Post by norton on Mar 2, 2011 8:23:57 GMT -8
I think that it is very important that an attempt is made to breed Charaxes “murphyi”. This would prove one way or another if it is a viable taxon or just a hybrid. On the other hand if they are hybrids and are fertile then the relationship between cithaeron and tiridates needs to be examined, as we all know that hybrids between two species are sterile.
Maybe something is happening along the lines that if these hybrids mate with one of the original species – rather than amongst themselves, that these “back-crosses’ are fertile or semi-fertile. In other words it may be a case of what mates with what. It is a very interesting subject.
Often success at collecting is just a case of being in the right place at the right time or in the EXACT location or situation for some species. Look at Charaxes taverniersi – only known from 2 specimens for about 30 years and then collected in large numbers. Charaxes gallagheri is another one – unless one knows exactly where it is found you stand little chance of getting it. Another example is Cymothoe mlanjae, it is supposed to be rare but get to Mulanje at right time and it comes of the mountain in clouds!
I shouldn’t worry too much about being able to express yourself in English. Anglophones are very understanding in this respect – unlike some others. It is not your fault you are not a native English speaker – you were born like that. Despite this handicap you manage to explain yourself thoroughly.
The language of this thread is English and Anglophones consider it extremely bad manners not to continue a conversation in the language being used.
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norton
Junior Member
Posts: 47
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Post by norton on Mar 2, 2011 8:24:32 GMT -8
"Are norton and thanos the same person? " God forbid!
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Post by saturniidave on Mar 2, 2011 8:27:12 GMT -8
No, his English is too good.
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Post by africaone on Mar 2, 2011 8:49:00 GMT -8
I asked him via personal message (because of the personal attack) and he refused to reveal his identity ! It is his right ! Like Dave I think he is English, he seems to know very well Eastern Africa, Cymothoe, Charaxes and jolybouyeri. Then one must look for somone that lived in Eastern Africa (or ? Zimbabwe regarding galagheri) and knows quite good the Charaxes (few people were involved in discussion about murphyi). it looks like AfricanCharaxes of the old forum. I have an idea ... Thierry
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Post by africaone on Mar 2, 2011 9:09:12 GMT -8
I am not born with a language. I learned it !
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Post by wollastoni on Mar 2, 2011 10:00:48 GMT -8
"Despite this handicap " < for sure, he is English ;-)
Only English can be as arrogant as we French are. ;D
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Post by jeanff on Mar 2, 2011 11:12:57 GMT -8
As a Canadian, I am considered half English and half French... Double the handicap Jean-Philippe
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norton
Junior Member
Posts: 47
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Post by norton on Mar 2, 2011 11:30:50 GMT -8
Another hybrid?
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Post by wollastoni on Mar 3, 2011 8:06:10 GMT -8
"As a Canadian, I am considered half English and half French... Double the handicap "
My sister is now Canadian, I have been about 10 times in Quebec ... and I can garanty it erases all defects : Quebec people are nice, cultured and welcoming !
Only problem is your national park guards who don't like foreign entomologists...
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Post by timmsyrj on Mar 3, 2011 12:42:38 GMT -8
just because a butterfly is a hybrid of 2 common species this doesn't mean the price would be as cheap for the hybrid, naturally occuring hybrids are not common even if the parent species are, Nandina for instance is a natural hybrid of 2 very common papilio, O.Akikoe is a hybrid of 2 common ornithoptera and allotei a hybrid of 1 common and 1 reasonably common species but i wouldn't expect to pay the same price for that as for O.Urvilleanus, and if i could get Nandina for the price of a male Phorcus or Dardanus i'd have a drawer full, rare species or naturally occuring hybrids aren't cheap, i wouldn't even bother with artificial hybrids, especially those that don't even fly together now that's just commercial breeding.
Rich
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Post by downundermoths on Mar 3, 2011 14:06:08 GMT -8
I asked him via personal message (because of the personal attack) and he refused to reveal his identity ! It is his right ! Like Dave I think he is English, he seems to know very well Eastern Africa, Cymothoe, Charaxes and jolybouyeri. Then one must look for somone that lived in Eastern Africa (or ? Zimbabwe regarding galagheri) and knows quite good the Charaxes (few people were involved in discussion about murphyi). it looks like AfricanCharaxes of the old forum. I have an idea ... Thierry I'm English ...I lived and collected for several years around Zambia ...I am not supercilious, rude, bombastic...It is not me... Barry
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Post by thanos on Mar 3, 2011 18:12:09 GMT -8
'O.akikoe' -You mean O.akakeae (rothschildi x priamus poseidon).I got mine at a good price and am very happy with it.Yes,in nature,hybrids like this one are extremely rare,but also very hard to be produced artificially with cross breeding. Btw: it's named after Robinia(R.pseudacacea L.) trees ('akakea' in Greek).So,akakeae = akakea's birdwing . Thanos
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Post by africaone on Mar 4, 2011 0:37:47 GMT -8
add the fact that murphyi is very difficult of access (at least in Katanga, I don't know for zambia from where I seen only few) that none specimen ressemble another. The first time I go to find it, it took me 24 hours to make 15 kms (you can't imagine the nightmare, I had to reopen a 3-4 kms road that disappeared) and one week collecting provided me 1 male specimen. it is nor uncommon nor common in the place. it took some years to obtain the first female form garnieri (only known by a very few specimens, all different each other) and 20 years to obtain the first that looks like joanae (only 2 known). Some females are absolutely wonderful ressembling none of the known Charaxes ! murphyi is really something special. Note that another very much more uncommon species flies in the same locality, Charaxes xiphares upembana of which the female is extraordinary similar in pattern to the murphyi "joanae" form. As I known (I have no all information coming from there), upembana was not catch in the Zambian locality of murphyi despite it seems known today from elsewhere in Zambia. Thierry
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Post by africaone on Mar 4, 2011 1:32:47 GMT -8
there is one male on ebay ps : Barry you had never been suspected and you are well known as a fair person !
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norton
Junior Member
Posts: 47
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Post by norton on Mar 4, 2011 3:08:35 GMT -8
Oh yes------xiphares, one of the usual suspects!
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