wondering what the holy grail lep of AZ is?

[w1]

Having a slow season in AZ decided to take a few leps. Spent time in Rio Rico, Willcox, Payson. Mainly an Asilid and Cicindela collector but going home empty handed was out of the question. What are your favorite species? What is the rarest one? Atleast the butterfly collecting makes my wife happy she thinks the fly thing is strange but they leps are pretty. I do like Parnassius but haven't expanded past them.

[evra]

It depends on who you talk to. If you talk to a giant skipper collector, he would undoubtedly say Megathymus ursus. A Saturniid collector would probably say either Rothschildia cincta, Automeris randa, or Sphingicampa raspa. A Sphingid collector would probably say Dolbogene hartwegii or Proserpinus vega. An Arctiid collector would say Dysschema howardi. Collectors now have most of those species pretty well dialed in. A few of them like M. ursus though are not common anywhere at any time.

A female Dysschema howardi is by far the prettiest/most impressive Lep in AZ.

[multicaudata]

I disagree about Dysschema howardi being the most impressive lep in AZ -- the best would surely be a beautiful, dark, long-tailed 6.5"+ female Papilio m. multicaudata! An interesting project for an AZ resident would be to look for record sizes of multicaudata -- the currently known record seems to be 6.5", but there are unverified reports of 7"+ from s. CO, so it's very possible they get bigger, and SE AZ would be a good place to look.

And if you want Parnassius, the best by far is P. smintheus sternitzkyi of the Northern California Siskiyou Mountains -- long drive or flight from AZ but worth it for the huge, apollo-like, and very abundant sternitzkyi. (It's probably the closest thing to apollo that we're still allowed to have!)

[evra]

I've caught literally hundreds of P. multicaudata, and they seem to have pretty uniform size of about 4.5" wingspan. I think I may have taken a female that was 5.5" wingspan about 7 years ago. The only leps in AZ that I've seen with 6+" wingspans are A. oculea, H. c. gloveri, and Ascalapha odorata.

Personally I think a fresh female Speyeria nokomis nitocris is prettier than a female P. multicaudata. If you include moths though, I'd have to say that the female Dysschema howardi, Hemileuca electra clio, or Sphingicampa raspa have the best colors. If you include small moths, I'd have to say one of the Stiriines, probably either Chalcopasta howardi or C. territans, both of which are a bright metallic gold.

As far as trophies go, it would probably be one of the stray Sphingids like Erinnyis crameri, E. alope, Eumorpha satellitia, E. vitis, or Isognathus rimosa. All of these turn up every once and a while and may even be temporarily residential. I've never heard of anyone finding larvae of any though. They are never predictable, and the only stray that's really even somewhat routine is Manduca occulta. It's all very subjective though.

[admin]

nitocris!

[Deleted]

the holy grail is usually the one species that you have longed to have for years but don't have it yet.

[w1]

Glad I started this topic. Curious now what the worlds holy grail species could be. Since each collection is personal. I'm ready and willing to hunt legal species anywhere feel free to send me to the remote jungles or deserts! Glad we've this site.

[58chevy]

For a complete overview of AZ moths, google Bruce Walsh's "Moths of Southeastern Arizona" website. I agree that a female Dysschema howardi is the most spectacular moth, while P. multicaudata is the most spectacular butterfly (along with P. pilumnus, a rare stray). I wonder how the sizes claimed for multicaudata were measured.

[boogtwo]

Aug 8, 2013 14:51:25 GMT -8 evra said:

It depends on who you talk to. If you talk to a giant skipper collector, he would undoubtedly say Megathymus ursus. A Saturniid collector would probably say either Rothschildia cincta, Automeris randa, or Sphingicampa raspa. A Sphingid collector would probably say Dolbogene hartwegii or Proserpinus vega. An Arctiid collector would say Dysschema howardi. Collectors now have most of those species pretty well dialed in. A few of them like M. ursus though are not common anywhere at any time.

Agree, rareity is often in the eye of the beholder. But there are species that have only been recorded in AZ one time, others only a few times and yet others that while maybe present more years than not are still in small numbers and/or localized. They are the ones I'd put the rarest moniker on.

From the early 80's to late 90's I did many 2-3 week long field trips to AZ, so over the years had field time in every month of the year there. Most often I was in Pima, Sanata Cruz and Cochise Counties, from the Quinlan to Chirichua Mountains and points south to the border. I usually based out of Green Valley, Madera Canyon, Sierra Vista or just slept on the ground next to my 4X4's where ever I was. Hiked all day and ran lights all night, so they were some pretty exhausting but fruitful trips. Lots of first's on those trips... first time for some species/subspecies, first time livestock obtained for some, first time mock attacked by a cougar while doing lepidoptera (Sawmill Canyon).

[beetlehorn]

I have to agree with Evan that it really depends on what you are after. Arizona has so much to offer that it's really hard to pin down what "the holy grail bug" would be. The first trip for me was in late August, mainly for Dynastes granti. I collected so much more than just beetles on that trip, that I quickly realized I needed to expand my efforts. Last year I went in mid July, mainly for moths, and I did manage to get D. howardii, S. raspa, and by a stroke of luck (literally), I net captured a beautiful female P. multicaudata while I was following Evan down a gravel backroad to check for Witchmoths under a bridge. What fascinated me was the fact that each location held something different. One place would yeild lots of Citheronia splendens, and another we found lots of Sphingicampa raspa for example.
So if you have a target species in mind you need to narrow your search down to known locations for the species, but never hesitate to collect something you might consider interesting, because you never know when the opportunity will arise again. You might find out that the occasional "rare" bug you happened upon is actually more rare, and more prized by collectors than what you were after initially. I have learned a long time ago not to fixate on just one species, especially when making a distant trip. I collect as much as I can, and sort through the material when I get home. I make every effort to mount and label every specimen I collected. Sometimes I am pleasantly surprized that I got a "rare" bug I didn't know about at the time of capture. I think the term "holy grail" can shift from one bug to another as time goes on in any collectors career.

[multicaudata]

Evra,
Interesting about the consistent 4.5" P. m. multicaudata in AZ... Last summer in just a single day of collecting in the Organ Mountains of s. NM, I got two females over 5" and saw another, and a couple months ago I returned and saw a magnificent female that must have been 6" or more who evaded my net by soaring like an eagle straight up a cliff and into the sky. Perhaps they're actually consistently bigger in NM than AZ? Maybe they're bigger the farther east you go; does anybody have them from TX?