|
Post by suzuki on Jul 19, 2013 3:21:36 GMT -8
I just returned from a collecting trip in Serbia. I wanted to relax some of the butterflies in papers. I placed 4 I.podalirius, 2 N. antiopa and 2 N. polychloros together in a relaxing box. After a day and a half I tried to set them. All 4 of the Nymphalidae were perfectly relaxed and spread. All the podalirius were not and have gone back into another relaxing box. All were of a similar size but the differing lenghts of time is surprising. Have others experienced the same differences in similar sized butterflies?
|
|
|
|
Post by Adam Cotton on Jul 19, 2013 13:42:04 GMT -8
Some butterflies do seem to relax much more slowly than others. Almost certainly your podalirius will be soft after another day or 2. If they still don't seem to have relaxed properly try digging your thumb and forefinger nails into the thorax on either side of the wing bases. This often loosens the muscles and enables the butterflies to be spread properly.
Adam.
|
|
|
Post by suzuki on Jul 19, 2013 13:48:37 GMT -8
Adam thanks. I will have a go tomorrow as you suggest.Karl,
|
|
|
Post by bluemoth on Jul 19, 2013 14:08:51 GMT -8
Length of relaxation time varies acording to size and how thick thorax is. Aproximetly 1 to 2 days for tiny butterflies like blues. But skippers the same size may take a little longer do to thick thorax. Nympalalids 4 to 7 days depending on thorax thickness. Swallowtails a little longer like 9 days for some bigger ones like Birdwings. Big silk moths 1 and a half to 2 weeks depending on size. The amount of moister in box will also affect the time. Quick relaxation will occur if hot water is placed under insects in box (do this for no more than 1 half hour or you end up with mushy insects) or inject boiling hot water into each side of thorax just behind legs with suring (takes 15 minutes to relax).
|
|
|
Post by Adam Cotton on Jul 20, 2013 0:35:44 GMT -8
or inject boiling hot water into each side of thorax just behind legs with suring (takes 15 minutes to relax). Just to clarify, that is of course "with syringe". Injecting boiling water can be a fast way to relax butterflies, but I found that they don't set as nicely, as the wing muscles are relaxed but the actual wings themselves are still brittle, so when moved into position on the relaxing board they don't alter their shape to adjust to the new position. It can be a good method to deal with stubborn specimens particularly when combined with a day or two in the relaxing box. Adam.
|
|
|
Post by timmsyrj on Jul 27, 2013 7:28:55 GMT -8
Injecting can lead to staining if you are not careful, especially with ornithoptera and morpho, best not to use boiling water as this can dissolve the body fats and wash them onto the wings. As I usually only concentrate on the collection through the winter months I use a relaxing box resting on top of the radiator in my study room, this humidifies the box much quicker and even larger bodied specimens are fully relaxed in 24 hrs. Don't put too many in as those in the middle will not get much moisture as those above and below will absorb it all, I do a dozen at a time, enough for a couple of boards every night.
|
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2013 7:58:48 GMT -8
seems like a long time for I Podalirius in the relaxing box, every one of these I have done has been ready in 24 hours, the longest for me are prepona and agrias which can take 2 days plus until they are ready, as Adam suggests, dig your nails into the thorax below the wings, this speeds up troublesome specimens.
|
|
|
Post by jensb on Aug 3, 2013 0:45:50 GMT -8
I do it a howle other way. I get as hot as possible water out of the tap and do this in a box. I lay the butterfly's on top of the hot water and close the box. Normally most butterflys are relaxed in a few minutes to 15 minutes.
|
|
|
Post by prillbug4 on Aug 3, 2013 16:23:49 GMT -8
It takes me about 12 hours to relax my insects. More info in past forums. Jeff Prill
|
|
|
Post by admin on Aug 5, 2013 2:55:07 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by lordpandarus on Aug 7, 2013 1:37:09 GMT -8
My technique is putting the butterflies directly in between damp paper towels in a tupperware
Takes 24 to 48 hours at most.
I never needed to inject and the few times I tried it was a disaster
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2013 3:07:36 GMT -8
Yes I find its best to stick to tried and trusted methods, if you are going to experiment on a new technique, do it on something common as it may result in expensive disappointment.
|
|
|
Post by nomad on Aug 20, 2013 10:23:38 GMT -8
Some time ago, I placed a few papered brown Delias in a relaxer and after days two set them, no problem. I must admit I hate relaxing butterflies but enjoy setting them, the latter is supposed to be the hard part but I have set hundreds if not thousands of fresh small butterflies and moths when I collected those. Recently I bought a number of papered Delias, because this is the way to go, if you want to obtain a very good selection of them cheaply. The two I put in, after two days, were fully relaxed but when I began to set them, I was very disappointed to find they had water marks on them [ the brown tip had run in the yellow area of the specimens in one small place on one wing and they were ruined . I used wet, but not soaking paper towels, cut the triangles at both ends and put a dry paper towel over the top with a moist one on top. Was 48 hours too long or should I have not put a moist paper towel on top?. Should I use a syringe with hot water on small butterflies such as Delias, I have used this method with success on Ornithoptera but do not like it. I have seen the fast methods, where the entomologist place hot water in the bottom of a container and cover their butterflies, but how they get away without water spotting is amazing and do not think this is the right way to go with Delias which stain easily. The other day, a Spanish collector, who collects Delias, suggested I use the following method. He remarkably does not use any form of water but uses the leaves of Prunus laurocerasus [ Cherry laurel], which he cuts into small pieces and places in a airtight container for three to four days and then his specimens are ready to set. Has anyone else heard of this relaxing method. I believe the leaves contain cyanide and early entomologists used them to kill their insects. What do you think? Peter.
|
|
|
Post by Adam Cotton on Aug 20, 2013 10:56:45 GMT -8
The other day, a Spanish collector, who collects Delias, suggested I use the following method. He remarkably does not use any form of water but uses the leaves of Prunus laurocerasus [ Cherry laurel], which he cuts into small pieces and places in a airtight container for three to four days and then his specimens are ready to set. Has anyone else heard of this relaxing method. I believe the leaves contain cyanide and early entomologists used them to kill their insects. What do you think? Cyanide can have nasty effects on certain colours on butterfly wings, although the Spanish collector probably knows whether or not it affects Delias. Interesting method though. Adam.
|
|
|
Post by suzuki on Aug 20, 2013 11:44:22 GMT -8
This staining has happened to me before too. I do not use a wet tissue on top of the papers but still some staining. I think a shorter period in the relaxing box for delias and other dainty specimens is required. I also used the chopped laurel leaves many years ago on some haistreaks with some success.My father,a doctor,advised me not to continue due to the cyanide.
|
|