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Post by nomad on Mar 2, 2013 14:31:27 GMT -8
I have always been fascinated by the extinct British Large Copper [Lycaena dispar dispar, what a beauty to have been lost way back in the mid 19th century with the drainage of its fenland home. Here is a selection of specimens from a friends collection. Today these are rarely offered but you might have to pay 500 pounds or more for a single specimen. Most shown below are from the 1830's to early 1840,s Attachments:
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Post by nomad on Mar 2, 2013 14:33:43 GMT -8
Female L. dispar dispar Holme Fen, Huntingdonshire. Attachments:
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Post by nomad on Mar 2, 2013 14:35:34 GMT -8
Males of Lycaena dispar dispar Attachments:
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Post by nomad on Mar 2, 2013 14:36:50 GMT -8
Males of L. dispar dispar Attachments:
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Post by nomad on Mar 2, 2013 14:48:59 GMT -8
Lastly, two females of L. dispar dispar from Whittlesea Mere, Cambridgeshire. Attachments:
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Post by wollastoni on Mar 3, 2013 0:09:22 GMT -8
Wonderful.
Another great example of why insect collecting is useful.
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Post by jonathan on Mar 3, 2013 0:25:25 GMT -8
There are always 2 theories behind the extinction of a species or a population of insects:
That extinction:
1. was caused by insect collecting
2. was caused by development and environmental change/damage
I am more than sure that most extinctions are caused by environmental changes rather than us (insect collectors) however there will be instances where after heavy environmental changes, the last few specimens were collected for collection purposes and the stupid "environmentalists" will blame it on the insect collector and not on who caused the environmental change in the first place.
So, I definitely agree with you that that is why insect collecting is important. Try to get back the L. dispar dispar now!! At least we know from collections how it used to look like.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2013 1:17:33 GMT -8
in superb condition too, drainage of the fens was the reason dispar died out, as you say if not for collections we would have nothing to remind us of lost glories.
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Post by nomad on Mar 3, 2013 2:03:53 GMT -8
As these are rarely seen in such large numbers in a private collection here are a few images of his amazing L. dispar dispar drawer. All were bought with old collections. Many were orginally sold as lots in the Auction houses. See below. I love the way this collector has all sorts of emporia in his drawer relating to the Large Copper. Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2013 2:05:36 GMT -8
I wonder if they could clone extinct species through DNA extraction? but then if they could i don't think they would bother.
Too much of a hassle for such a small thing.....
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Post by nomad on Mar 3, 2013 2:05:38 GMT -8
 A wonderful array of L. dispar dispar Attachments:
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Post by nomad on Mar 3, 2013 2:06:50 GMT -8
and again. Attachments:
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Post by nomad on Mar 3, 2013 2:11:36 GMT -8
Two males from Holme Fen, Huntingdon 1840 Attachments:
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Post by nomad on Mar 3, 2013 2:56:14 GMT -8
Stringer, I think we may be some way, from cloning dead butterflies. A much for viable solution would be a reintroduced again in a more suitable habitat of the now endangered Dutch race L. dispar batavus, which I believe was very close to ours, although ours was larger and brighter in the females. The introduction of the batavus race came to a end after 70 years at Woodwalton Fen in Camb, because this wet area is now surrounded by cornfields and the water level kept dropping and plus the expense of the long going project, because without yearly help the butterfly was doomed there anyway. Today there are plans afoot through a U. K. Biodiversity Action Plan to reintroduce the Dutch race batavus in a large more suitable area in the Norfolk Broads. Here's hoping they will succeed and this very beautiful species flies once more again in Britain.
There is a great discussion on the extinction of Lycaena dispar in ' The Aurelians Fireside Companion' by M. Salmon & P. J. Edwards [2005] and where you can find other interesting details on this and many other species.
Peter.
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Post by nomihoudai on Mar 3, 2013 2:59:03 GMT -8
This drawer contains a fortune... I would like to have a single pair of L. dispar dispar sometime in the future but first I would need to get a job that pays off...
Thanks for showing these specimens, they do not exhibit the identification characteristics given by Bozano in his Lycaenidae part I book. There he states that the submarginal orange band on the hindwing underside is not completely connected and ends with a square patch below vein 6. On these specimens the orange band is completely connected. I am always cautious about the characteristics described in Bozanos books as I think he sometimes bases his opinion on a very small number of specimens he has seen in some collections.
@stringer, while in theory possible, the cloning of this species should be impossible in practice. There is just too many sources of problems at different levels of complexity ranging from the consistency of DNA over to more human made problems like funding and interest.
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A wonderful array of L. dispar dispar
