|
Post by wollastoni on Jan 7, 2013 6:12:09 GMT -8
I wasn't saying CITES authorities are corrupted. I was talking about the local situation in PNG where no authorities really want the sustainable insect trade to start again...
If PNG authorities ask CITES to put alexandrae on CITESII in order to better protect it, I am pretty sure CITES authorities would accept (as they did for P. hospiton).
|
|
|
|
Post by nomad on Jan 7, 2013 6:25:25 GMT -8
CITES is there to protect animals right? not just insects but any animals I believe so isn't made from a board of people with some ideology I mean it can't be that corrupt right?? If O.Alexandra can be bred just like any other insect specie it can also be done in other countries than PANG it just doesn't make any sense. banning trade in O.Alexandra is basically a death warrant I think. So what are the upsides to banning the trade Bas. The main point in breeding Alexandrae in New Guinea would to help those poor villagers thus helping them to preserve their rain-forest from plantation owners and loggers. By doing so this would help save this giant butterfly. This would satisfy collectors and give the local people some sort a living. Nomad
|
|
|
Post by Adam Cotton on Jan 7, 2013 6:32:44 GMT -8
CITES is there to protect animals right? WRONG, sadly. CITES is there to make western governments look politically good to Joe Public, and is perpetuated by people who want cushy jobs running the organisation. They are not interested in true protection of animals or plants at all. As nomad said, by the time they realise where they went wrong it will be too late. Adam.
|
|
|
Post by nomad on Jan 7, 2013 6:33:00 GMT -8
I wasn't saying CITES authorities are corrupted. I was talking about the local situation in PNG where no authorities really want the sustainable insect trade to start again... If PNG authorities ask CITES to put alexandrae on CITESII in order to better protect it, I am pretty sure CITES authorities would accept (as they did for P. hospiton). Wollastoni has hit the nail on the head, so to speak, if they put alexandrae on cites two and the natives start breeding it and make money they won't sell their land to oil plantation owners and loggers. Nomad.
|
|
bas
Full Member
Posts: 101
|
Post by bas on Jan 7, 2013 9:32:29 GMT -8
and Illegal breeding of rare butterflies is that happening? it is probably just like producing drugs its illegal but also lucrative (I would suspect) it boggle's me that there is suchs a high demand for it and no supply I think basically every collector would like to add it to his collection and really no one seems to have a Queen. personally im more into saturnidae but I think there might be a day I want to start collecting ornithoptera as well
|
|
bas
Full Member
Posts: 101
|
Post by bas on Jan 7, 2013 9:33:06 GMT -8
we should signs a petition and send to CITES and some media as well
|
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2013 11:21:49 GMT -8
Isn't it possible for ornithoptera alexandrae to live in any other country other than PNG. (not sure if it does or not) But surely to get the species off the cites 1 endangered list a breeding programme could be introduced elsewhere? I understand conservationists don't have time to spend on one perticular species, but i do know that "knowledgeable" people can be employed to do this. The catapillars of birdwings don't destroy certain plants do they? just wondering if there was any other reason not to introduce them to any other part of the world. pete
|
|
bas
Full Member
Posts: 101
|
Post by bas on Jan 7, 2013 13:05:12 GMT -8
Maybe it can f..k up eco systems they usually are very balanced and making small tweaks can have great impacts I believe But im not really sure im not exactly sir d.attenborough
|
|
|
Post by wolf on Jan 7, 2013 13:43:20 GMT -8
I mentioned in another topic the Animal Planet show Buggin with ruud. Well in that episode about the O.alexandrae they mention that the foodplant for the butterfly is widely spread, but still the butterfly only occurs in a relatively small area. They then go to mention a volcano not far away, and speculate if the volcanic ash in the soil gives the plant some special minerals or whatever which the larva prefer/need. I dont know if this is complete bulls**t or if it has some relevance, i'm just refering to what they said in that program. It may very well only be the special climate at that exact spot, or something?
|
|
bas
Full Member
Posts: 101
|
Post by bas on Jan 7, 2013 13:46:26 GMT -8
I would like to see the programme maybe I can download it it sound very interresting
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2013 1:36:01 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by exoticimports on Jan 28, 2013 12:06:21 GMT -8
The book is a great read- too bad it's largely fiction. The author went to great lengths to describe Yoshi as a slovenly shivering nutjob. In fact, Yoshi was well spoken, and typically well dressed and clean. The exciting story, gleaned from interviews with USFWS, clearly states that USFWS wasn't interested in busting Yoshi when they could at any time- they wanted to intice him to smuggle the "Grand Slam" of high-value butterflies. Clearly, this part is true, since Yoshi always exhibited smuggled Ornithoptera at all the California bug shows. However, the author painted him as cunning and able to out-smart USFWS and hard to locate; in fact, this is garbage because Yoshi was always at the bug shows. Even at the Pomona show, when word was out that USFWS was there and going to bush Yoshi at the show, Yoshi was there. Furthermore, the author introduces other domestic entomologists as eco-terrorists; in most cases the presentation is rife with innacuracy, while in some cases it is blatant fabrication. A very similar book, the Lizard King www.amazon.com/The-Lizard-King-Passions-Smugglers/dp/B003XU7WGY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1359403364&sr=8-2&keywords=lizard+king explores reptile smuggling. Reading it, it sounds just like this fabrication. However, if one reads it with a sound mind, one has to question who the real threats were- often USFWS which would seize specimens that would die. Furthermore, the book makes a final concession that many of the reptiles common in the US reptile trade would not be available had they not been smuggled in. If you want to read another similar story of government run amok, read about the T Rex skeleton in www.amazon.com/Tyrannosaurus-Sue-Extraordinary-Largest-Fought/dp/0716794624/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1359403492&sr=1-4&keywords=rex+sueSo be careful what you read- these "naughty smuggler" stories are largely that- fiction. In fact, I reviewed this book in reviews section: insectnet.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=bookreviews&action=display&thread=1506
|
|
|
Post by jamesd on Feb 4, 2013 1:35:11 GMT -8
Not all conservationists agree with the current protection: "On Ornithoptera alexandrae (Queen Alexandra’s birdwing), Spain presented the results of its review of this species, the world’s largest butterfly endemic to Papua New Guinea. He said the species is listed in Appendix I, classed as Endangered on the IUCN Red List, and protected by national legislation in its only range State.
He proposed downlisting O. alexandrae from Appendix I to Appendix II, arguing that: its current listing creates an element of rarity, which triggers illegal trade; market demand may be best served by specimens raised in controlled conditions such as ranching programmes; and allowing controlled trade may help reverse habitat degradation and promote scientific research. He noted the range State’s support for transferring the species to Appendix II."Source: www.iisd.ca/vol21/enb2149e.html
|
|
|
Post by wollastoni on Feb 4, 2013 2:27:46 GMT -8
jamesd < it was in 2006 and nothing happened since...
So many years wasted... Of course ranching and sustainable trade is the only way to protect O. alexandrae habitat. All scientists know that...
|
|