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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2012 7:53:42 GMT -8
I know in the U.S and other countries around the world it is the norm for police officers to carry guns, but here in the U.K this is not the case. Yesterday two lady police officers (one just 24 yeasrs old) were gunned down and also an hand granade used to murder these people. The person that killed them was a man wanted in conection with two other murders. Why two lady police officers were together checking out a bogus burglary call in the first place is beyond me, There should have been a male officer in attendence also, But should this be the time for them to carry guns? maybe people from the U.S could shed light on what difference this would make, or would innocent people be caught up in the police then shooting them?
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Post by saturniidave on Sept 19, 2012 9:17:24 GMT -8
Pete, they were ambushed so it would have made no difference if they were carrying guns or not. They still would have been killed.
If the Police start to routinely carry guns more criminals will do so too, then the problem will escalate and more people will end up being shot. You will wind up with 'wild-west' type shootouts like they do in America where innocent people get caught in the crossfire.
Personally I would equip ALL officers with tasers, next best thing to a gun and very effective but non-lethal.
I personally think the more important question is why two unarmed female officers were allowed to go to an area that he was suspected of being in and why was he not caught sooner. Now he has made a name for himself as a police killer which I am sure will come in handy when he gets out of prison in a few years time.
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Post by wingedwishes on Sept 19, 2012 10:07:00 GMT -8
Taser is a good control in some circumstances. Remember, a gun is a tool. Most any tool can be lethal and some can be downright vicious. The wild west ended many decades ago. If you look at FBI crime statistics, violent crime is lower in states which allow guns to be carried than those which do not allow. Border patrol officers have increasingly come under fully automatic weapons fire from border crossing drug runners. How would a taser stand up to a machine gun? I don't have a gun but I am glad that law abiding citizens who have had training carry them. The argument then becomes: Make all guns illegal and you can make it hard for criminals to get a gun also. If you think that then visit this website: news.yahoo.com/you-don-t-bring-a-3d-printer-to-a-gun-fight----yet.html. Many police officers have a gun, a baton, a taser, and body armor in America so that they can apply the right tool for the right situation. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2012 11:13:58 GMT -8
i Agree with the tazer issue, but i know of a person that lives in my village who is considered by police to be "dangerous" simply ripped the tazer clean out of his chest when they tazered him. He was that enraged by a situation that oocured here that the tazer did not put him to the floor. Maybe a few officers with guns pointed at him would have made him think twice.
I placed the thread because they have been talking about the debate on the radio.
Then again look what happened to Jean Charles de Menezes on the london underground!!!!
I personally think it will be a disaster, but i do think that the police force should re think their strategy on allowing two young WPC's to attend a call which was supposed to have been a burglary.
"when the horse has bolted" comes in to mind.
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Post by dertodesking on Sept 19, 2012 12:03:55 GMT -8
Pete, they were ambushed so it would have made no difference if they were carrying guns or not. They still would have been killed. If the Police start to routinely carry guns more criminals will do so too, then the problem will escalate and more people will end up being shot. You will wind up with 'wild-west' type shootouts like they do in America where innocent people get caught in the crossfire. Personally I would equip ALL officers with tasers, next best thing to a gun and very effective but non-lethal. I personally think the more important question is why two unarmed female officers were allowed to go to an area that he was suspected of being in and why was he not caught sooner. Now he has made a name for himself as a police killer which I am sure will come in handy when he gets out of prison in a few years time. Dave, Definately agree with the first bit - whether or not these officers were armed probably wouldn't have made a difference...hell, didn't this guy throw a hand-grenade? Having a gun wouldn't have stopped him doing that. I'm not sure I agree with the argument that if the police are armed criminals will arm themselves...when I've holidayed in parts of Europe I've seen heavily armed police patrolling the streets. I didn't feel threatened by them (actually it was quite reassuring) and I've not heard of regular shootings between criminals and the police, with members of the general public caught in the crossfire, in places like Spain, Portugal, Germany, Italy, the Czech Republic, Poland etc etc... I think there is a different mindset in the US to gun ownership compared to most of Europe. In the US where guns are widely available to members of the public its no big issue for a criminal to get one...in most of Europe we don't have such easy access and I think some/lots/most criminals wouldn't want to be armed for fear of being shot by armed police. Criminals who will carry guns will do so regardless of whether or not the police are armed...as they do now. You're right about the comments on having two unarmed officers going to the address tho'...and I thought it rich to hear politicians giving their opinions when it is their direct actions and policies which have led to a mass reduction in public services, including the Police, and their ability to respond appropriately... Simon |
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Post by dertodesking on Sept 19, 2012 12:06:54 GMT -8
Forgot to say...instead of the routine carrying of guns what about the re-introduction of the death penalty?
Wouldn't that also deter criminals...plus be a more appropriate punishment for people who commit the ultimate offence?
Simon
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Post by zdenol123 on Sept 19, 2012 15:37:35 GMT -8
there is between 8000-9000 armed cops in your country...funny is, that I have just came back from the town ( kebab shop ) and 2 armed cops stopped by for some snack and both were armed with 9mm...4 x 4 BMW patrol car...
and is very very easy to get an firearm licence ( Im doing it right now and you know, that I m not a Brit, been here just a few years, etc ) ...for rifles or very long barrel hand guns...here is more than 180k registered guns...thats a lot for about 65 mil population ! so I would not say, there is any difference...
You know very well, that cops are for a laugh here with no respect...whats the point of having and paying them ? So, I would say yes - armed cops = less crooks, less murders, more space in the prison = more money for schools, for families, health service, etc.
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Post by mygala on Sept 19, 2012 19:08:20 GMT -8
Having armed police officers hasn't stopped crime or cop-killers in the US. If it works for the UK (and apparently most UK police officers prefer it that way), then I think they should continue.
The two young officers that were killed, were apparently lured there with a false burglary report. Their gender had no bearing on the outcome. Two male officers would, in all likelihood have been shot as well.
I think that in lieu of guns, they might consider ballistic armor for their officers. JMO.
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Post by wollastoni on Sept 19, 2012 23:31:44 GMT -8
In France, cops are armed... and thus criminals now use AK47.
I am not sure having armed cops would help decline criminality... but at least it gives cops a way to defend themselves when they meet killers like these guys...
I would rather agree with Simon about the death sentence issue.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2012 0:35:46 GMT -8
i know it was false burglary call, but even if it wasn't a false call, why would you send two female officers to check it out. the same happened in bradford when a call came to attend a robbery and two WPC's were shot there? luckily one officer lived.
cheers
pete
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Post by bobw on Sept 20, 2012 3:25:15 GMT -8
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2012 8:48:32 GMT -8
I'm afraid that it goes a bit deeper than this and the problem has only got worse over time. While ever we have P C do gooders and out of touch Judges making laws how can it ever get better. For too long in this country we have soft soaped criminals while the innocent get punished. Ask yourself this, would people be less inclined to commit murder if the punishment was the death penalty instead of 15 years in a 4 star hotel, would a person commit rape if they knew they were in for a LIFE sentence with no chance of release, would there be so many paedophiles if the sentences fitted the crime, the answer goes far deeper than just police officers being armed, we all know what the answers are to stop these lunatics but nobody in our caring sharing "tolerant" society that is modern Britain has the guts to do anything about it. Anyway, I'm off to net myself some alexandrae now, punishable with the electric chair.
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Post by wollastoni on Sept 20, 2012 9:13:32 GMT -8
Could be true for thieves and dealers.
For paedophiles, I'm afraid it's a psychological disease, and even with severe punishment, they could not resist their temptations.
The death sentence was abolished in France in the 80s. I am not sure there were less killers in those times. But at least we did not spend our money to keep killers in prison for twenty years ... and we did not take the risk of recidive once they are free.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2012 11:53:57 GMT -8
I totally disagree that all paedophiles have psychological problems. True that some do, but the paedophile rings that exist where they contact each other tradeing young children is highly organised. These scumbag people should have their nuts chopped then banged up for a long time.
Anyway that's a different story.
I'm not sure that the death penalty would deter people from committing murder. I believe that anyone going out to commit a murder would do so knowing the consequences, but believing that they will not get caught.
I think that this country does fine with police officers not carrying guns, but much tougher sentences should be given to anyone caught in possesion of one.
You are right dunc, we are way too soft on punishment in this country. If you wanted to really do someone in, just run them over and say it was an accident, You never know the judge here may give you a stiff sentence of two years probation !!!!!!!
you be careful netting those dunc, you could get the chair then hung drawn and quatered.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2012 0:31:01 GMT -8
in 10 years time the sentence for murder will be a jolly good telling off.
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