ckswank
Full Member
Posts: 239
Country: USA
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Post by ckswank on Feb 15, 2012 11:37:47 GMT -8
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Post by saturniidave on Feb 15, 2012 15:50:41 GMT -8
They always do Charlie, same here in England. It is never anything to do with habitat damage of course  |
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ckswank
Full Member
Posts: 239
Country: USA
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Post by ckswank on Feb 15, 2012 23:10:55 GMT -8
Sometimes I wonder if there is going to be any untouched & unspoiled areas of the earth for our grandchildren to explore. Wonder what life will be like with a generation growing up with smartphones. Maybe tiny heads with small brains & nearsighted eyes from reading such small screens. Can't forget bulging muscular thumbs from texting! LOL
Charlie
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Post by bluemoth on Feb 16, 2012 14:41:41 GMT -8
The iguanu seems to be the main culpret in the artical. It eats leaves that the butterflies lay their eggs on. Habbitat los and collectors were listed as an after thought. I do hate the bad PR. Every one here on this sight would never collect an endangered species. It is no dowt our wish that endangered species recover to a point ware they can legally be collected again.
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Post by rayrard on Feb 16, 2012 19:29:35 GMT -8
The iguanu seems to be the main culpret in the artical. It eats leaves that the butterflies lay their eggs on. Habbitat los and collectors were listed as an after thought. I do hate the bad PR. Every one here on this sight would never collect an endangered species. It is no dowt our wish that endangered species recover to a point ware they can legally be collected again. one problem with the legislation to protect the Miami Blue is that they put the Ceraunus and Cassius Blues in the "threatened" category. Now clearly this is due to the fact that the Miami Blue is extremely similar to those species, and they can't count on DNR officials to be able to tell the difference, so they just protect them all to be safe. BUT, this would make it illegal to collect a Ceraunus or Cassius Blue ANYWHERE in Florida, even in areas hundreds of miles from Miami Blue habitat. Ceraunus and Cassius are ridiculously common in Fla. Case in point, finding these species in S. Carolina is a good record and I have taken them in the past. Now I wouldn't be able to voucher those specimens despite there being ZERO chance of taking the endangered ones (and the Ceraunus/Cassius just die off in the winter anyway up here). I wish they would limit the legislation to Southern Florida only (like from Tampa and Orlando south) |
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Post by Chris Grinter on Feb 16, 2012 22:01:33 GMT -8
I agree with bluemoth - this wasn't as bad of an article as I was expecting. Thankfully it was mentioned as a passing comment by someone being interviewed and the article does a good job of telling the real story of what's actually happening to the Blue. It seems like whenever anyone is asked why a species is going extinct they have to list every possibility they can think of - and collecting is always on that list. That is thanks to the halfwits at NABA who proudly parade around the example of over-collecting in the Mitchel's Satyr case (which has ZERO evidence to support that claim). And the listing of cassius and ceraunus blues is totally unnecessary (FWS say themselves they have listed them because of collecting pressure... then on to say there is actually no evidence for doing this). I blogged about this topic and Jeff Glassberg chimed in with a comment: skepticalmoth.southernfriedscience.com/2011/08/miami-blue/Essentially every school child in Florida and near-environs will now be a butterfly poacher for collecting the single most abundant butterfly in their back yards. |
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Post by rayrard on Feb 17, 2012 16:09:07 GMT -8
I agree with bluemoth - this wasn't as bad of an article as I was expecting. Thankfully it was mentioned as a passing comment by someone being interviewed and the article does a good job of telling the real story of what's actually happening to the Blue. It seems like whenever anyone is asked why a species is going extinct they have to list every possibility they can think of - and collecting is always on that list. That is thanks to the halfwits at NABA who proudly parade around the example of over-collecting in the Mitchel's Satyr case (which has ZERO evidence to support that claim). And the listing of cassius and ceraunus blues is totally unnecessary (FWS say themselves they have listed them because of collecting pressure... then on to say there is actually no evidence for doing this). I blogged about this topic and Jeff Glassberg chimed in with a comment: skepticalmoth.southernfriedscience.com/2011/08/miami-blue/Essentially every school child in Florida and near-environs will now be a butterfly poacher for collecting the single most abundant butterfly in their back yards. I enjoyed the blog post... next thing they'll make it illegal to collect an Eastern Tailed Blue in NY because the Miami Blue is going extinct in S. Fla.  |
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Post by entoman on Feb 21, 2012 6:44:22 GMT -8
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Post by bathcat on May 19, 2012 12:25:34 GMT -8
I suppose this isn't surprising. Insect collecting, especially butterflies, has this taint of childish, possessive neurosis with the general public. After all, we're killing small beautiful animals, only to put them in a box in our house. At that point, people stop thinking about what we're doing. When people ask me what I'm doing in the field, I'm usually asked what I do with them, and after explaining that they'll be put into a collection, I always state that when I die, the collection will go to a museum. At this point, they invariably go "OOOOoooohhh". I dunno what they thought was going to happen. Maybe I was going to have all the dead bugs burnt on my pyre? Buried with me? The idea that actual scientific information results from this sort of personal collecting doesn't seem to be considered in these rulings, and is certainly never read from between the lines when the idea is brought up before a panel. The idea that facts about the animals (huge amounts of offspring, short flight times of the adults, etc) be considered during the decision making is laughable. Collectors are directly capturing and killing the animals, therefore collecting must become illegal. Problem solved  The truth is, there's no lobbying, PR, or monetary pressure put upon the people in charge of making these decisions and rulings. A small group of people seemingly obsessed with bugs is no match for the donating power of a land development business association, a mining/ logging corporation, a pesticide company, an agricultural firm, or the pressures of environmentalists with black and white views on consumption of nature. The rules will continue to pile up as we go along, robbing a small group of people of a great deal of satisfaction and joy, and the general body of knowledge about the world we live on of that much more information. The people with the money will continue to fragment and sterilize the environment in whatever capacity is the most profitable to their C-boards, and the politicians and regulators will continue to dance to their tune, all the while singing their great concern for the environment. |
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Post by beetlehorn on May 20, 2012 18:04:41 GMT -8
Pure logic, based on fact! I couldn't have said it better. Tom
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Post by anthony on May 21, 2012 8:20:40 GMT -8
I am certain the government knows what is best for all of us....
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Post by wollastoni on May 21, 2012 10:11:41 GMT -8
So let's face it : if we do nothing, our passion will soon be prohibited for amateurs in most of our countries (in 10 years, 20 years, 30 years ?)
- Let's fight for our rights with our Associations in every country (have a clear list of protected species and a clear statement than other species are ok to be collected)
- Let's participate to public programs (butterfly population studies...) to show governors that they need us, and that we work for free...
- And let's explain pedagogically our passion to kids and their parents (some may change their minds).
All of us try to be more and more quiet to stay safe (me too), but it's not the good method to defend our hobby (I mean where we live... not in the Solomon islands).
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2012 10:45:44 GMT -8
the only way you will be able to see even some of the most common species soon are dead set specimens in collections once everything is under concrete, but they will still blame collectors, it will never change because silent minorities are an easy target, in 50 years there will be virtually nothing left so carry on collecting boys, safely and responsibly, and then when they come knocxking to see your collection because you have specimens of an extinct or very rare species, tell them to f!!! off.
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