O. tithonus WATER DAMAGE

[bichos]

Just curious to know if it is possible to fix a darkened specime like this fresh O. tithonus which is darkened from what I suspect to be 'water damage'.
After I set it I dried it in the hot sun for a whole day.

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[thanos]

Bichos,oh..and you have spread it very nice.
If this had happened to my alexandrae male,I would have killed me ! I find that water stains can't be fixed .
Just another time,when you relax Ornithoptera,cause they're very sensitive in water stains,look the body and/or wings not to be in contact with,for example,wet paper or wet envelop - prefer a longer and safer rehydration period (let's say 2 days, but no more,or a bit more if you add few drops of liquid soap or of acetone on the wet toilet paper on the base of relaxer for antiseptic protection, to avoid mould) with the specimen in the relaxer to be not in direct contact with water and to relax only with the humidity inside the relaxer. This way,wings will not get water stains and/or oily abdomen's chemicals which can be transfered on the wings through water. (In case the specimen is too stiff and you need to inject -water,ammonia,etc- with syringe in the thorax so to spread better, try not to inject too much,so again water not to cover wing areas and cause stains).

Thanos

[Chris Grinter]

Was the water damage caused during relaxing?

[simosg]

Here there are described two methods, but I didn't try it for myself yet. Please tell us how it worked if you will try one of this methods.

www.insectnet.com/cgi/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=read_count&om=2004&forum=DCForumID1

Hannes

[lordpandarus]

it's too bad

I don't think this type of damage can be fixed because the structure of the scale is destroyed

[thanos]

When I have an oiled(not only Lepidoptera,but also oiled Dynastes for example) or dusted specimens, I fill a container with gazoline (the one which cleans the clothes -it is cheap and you can find it easily in the super-markets) and put the whole pinned specimen to swim inside it, for a few minutes(or longer,depending on how much the oil persists). I also cover the container with something,so to reduce the gazoline's smelling and evaporation. Usually,after a few minutes of swimming, all the oil has been removed from both the wings and body and the specimen looks totally cleaned and perfect. If I leave it to swim for a longer time (for example for an hour) until the oil is fully removed,then, the wing edges/tails maybe become a bit curly once the gazoline will be evaporated(very quickly),when I will take the specimen out of the bath. But then,I simple partially rehydrate in a relaxer the specimen for a few hours and respread it,so the curly wing areas become straight again. The only specimens that this method didn't work so well were some Saturniidae which had old oil on the body. In these cases,although I put for many hours them in the gazoline,still an amount of oil remained on the body and wings,making also the hairs on them be 'stuck'. Finally,it worked for me excellently with Dynastes beetles with oily elytra,which became very bright and beautiful(the black spots became very clear and nice),but I had to leave the whole beetle swim into the gazoline for many hours.

BUT: Here,with your O.tithonus, we don't have(from what I can see) only oil/body's chemicals on the wings. Here we have extensive stains(on the right wings mainly),caused by hot(?) water(which was in direct contact with the body/wings during relaxing,so this to be fast ?). And I don't think that this type of damage can be fixed with gazoline or acetone.

Thanos

[bichos]

Thanyou very much fr your comments.

This is how I purchased the specimen which was listed as an A2 I just assume it is water damage as it was ver fresh and no not oily at all.

As lordpandarus suggests I do suspect the scale structure is altered and the damage to be peranent.

If it was oil I would try acetone bath as Thanos suggests as I have treated Ornithoptera abdomens with acetone and they do clean up nicely.

However, it takes some days or weeks to get all the oil out.
Thanks Hannes good info there from the old forum,
I think its worth a try,
I'll report back in a few weeks when I get the time to try it.

[mothman27]

I have recently spread my first Ornithoptera priamus poseidon male. Unfortunately, the body got wet during relaxing and lost the bright color. Will this color return after the abdomen dries? Luckily the wings did not get wet.

[exoticimports]

Oct 5, 2016 5:14:05 GMT -8 mothman27 said:

I have recently spread my first Ornithoptera priamus poseidon male. Unfortunately, the body got wet during relaxing and lost the bright color. Will this color return after the abdomen dries? Luckily the wings did not get wet.

It should return to yellow.

[mothman27]

Great! Thanks you.

[jhyatt]

Take a look at this thread on

collector-secret.proboards.com/thread/1059/brown-stains-on-green-ornithoptera

The nature of these brown stains is unclear - there seems to be no real hard data. Apparently not oil-caused (solvent extraction has no effect, and females never show any oil stains in my experience), and I have actually tried without success to induce staining on a beat-up priamus male by over-injecting water and letting the wings get thoroughly wetted in the relaxer.

I'd like to see some good SEM photos of stained and non-stained scales; I'm not 100% convinced that the staining is caused by anything during relaxing - I've seen it on the underside of a papered, never-spread lydius male. Could the brown areas occur due to a fault during emergence and wing development?

[Paul K]

Water stains are only present in colour less scales.
For some reason water can penetrates and goes inside the scale permanently change the structure of it.
It does happen also with blue Lycaenidae when left in relaxing chamber for too long. The water will dry but leave some brown staining here and there.

If it is only on your yellow abdomen it should dry without any stains, unless body fats were dissolved than you need to remove abdomen and submerge in pure aceton for few hours.

Paul