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Post by joachim on Apr 5, 2021 14:43:44 GMT -8
Hello, I recently got a Papilio alcmenorfrom Thailand. Is this a subspecies of memnon or protenor ? Or own species?
Thanks alot,
Joachim
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Post by Paul K on Apr 5, 2021 17:34:25 GMT -8
P.alcmenor is a separate species
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Post by Adam Cotton on Apr 6, 2021 0:13:11 GMT -8
Definitely a separate species. Which part of Thailand does your specimen come from? There are 2 subspecies here.
Adam.
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Post by joachim on Apr 11, 2021 8:49:17 GMT -8
hi, I was wondering that is is not mentioned from Malaysia but I see it is rather from the north
Doi Phu Kha Uan, Amphoe Pua, Nan, Thailand
adam you surely speak Thai perfect?
best wishes, Joachim
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Post by Adam Cotton on Apr 11, 2021 12:00:31 GMT -8
Indeed, Papilio alcmenor does not reach southern Thailand. Yes, as I have been living here for 40 years I do speak Thai fluently, I can also read it although I don't write it very well. Doi Phu Kha is the name of a 1800m high mountain in Nan Province (Doi means mountain in northern dialect of Thai). Amphoe Pua is the district that the mountain is in (Amphoe means district). This is a well known collecting locality, and I expect that the alcmenor came from lower elevation on the way up the mountain rather than near the summit. Your specimen should look like nominate Papilio alcmenor from N India, but in western Thailand, including Chiang Mai, and southern Burma (but not the peninsular part of either country) there is another subspecies called publilius. It seems that the nominate subspecies is distributed from India through northern Burma and Yunnan to Laos and Vietnam, reaching Nan Province (next to NW Laos). Here are some photos of drawers: ssp. alcmenor:  same from Laos:  ssp. publilius:  The females look like Byasa species but have black bodies. Adam. |
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Post by joachim on Apr 11, 2021 13:52:41 GMT -8
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Post by Adam Cotton on Apr 12, 2021 1:19:15 GMT -8
joachim, Thank you for posting photos of this. I am very surprised, although I guess I shouldn't be, as I don't think there are any butterfly collectors on Doi Phu Kha now, only a few beetle catchers. This specimen came from the collection of my best friend, Prasobsuk Sukkit (nickname Ting), who sadly died of cancer 3 years ago. See collector-secret.proboards.com/thread/2240/prasobsuk-sukkitThe date on the label is written in his own handwriting. You may be surprised to hear that I don't have any specimens from Nan in my own collection, which includes the Sukkit Papilionidae collection. Presumably Ting sold it at some stage and didn't have any more specimens in his collection. Indeed this is the same as alcmenor from Laos, and is currently treated as belonging to the nominate subspecies. The mountains in Nan are part of the range that comes down into northern Thailand from NW Laos, separate from the mountains in NW Thailand, hence there is a different subspecies there. Adam.
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Post by joachim on Apr 13, 2021 14:46:00 GMT -8
Halllo Adam, that's a very interesting story. I bought the butterfly because the label looked very antique too,
I still have 2 P.alcenor from Vietnam, which I will photograph when the opportunity arises.
I could send you P. alcmenor, but I don't know what customs and import restrictions are.
Greetings Joachim
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Post by Adam Cotton on Apr 14, 2021 2:03:08 GMT -8
joachim, Thank you very much for the offer, I really appreciate it. Don't worry about trying to send the specimen to me as I now have photos that I can refer to if necessary. It is good to know that the specimen is in a good home. Adam.
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