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Post by trehopr1 on Mar 22, 2021 23:24:11 GMT -8
Hey fellas,
I have read many times in various books over the years that the larvae of Citheronia/ Eacles pupate in the ground.
I have never really "thought" necessarily about that statement; I just took it as a scientific fact however, I'm just wondering what exactly do the larvae do to find themselves as a pupae in the ground ?
Do these very large larvae simply seek out an abandoned mouse hole or a snake hole or a chipmunk hole to hide away in ? Are they somehow even capable of burrowing?
I really can't see the burrowing thing happening because the larvae only has six tiny pro legs which they generally grasp for leaves with. Do they simply crawl down the tree trunk and then hide in the leaf litter but, at the surface under the leaf litter. Wouldn't animals find them and eat them heartily.
I have certainly never bred either of these genera but, the answer to this question about how they exactly find themselves underground is puzzling to me.
One almost never encounters a full-grown larvae in the natural state (outdoors);so, I'm also wondering how early observers may have come to the conclusions of the pupation of these genera.
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Post by exoticimports on Mar 23, 2021 2:22:51 GMT -8
Larvae do indeed burrow. If you raise sphingids you’ll see them do this. Why mice and chipmunks don’t find them I cannot explain. Certainly in the tropics lizards are adept as sniffing out and eating turtle eggs, one would think they could do likewise with pupae.
Chuck
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Post by bobw on Mar 23, 2021 4:39:13 GMT -8
Oh they can certainly burrow. I don't know about the species you mention but some moth larvae dig down as much a a foot, although a couple of inches is more common. There are some groups, and several butterflies, that pupate amongst the leaf litter, but they would be much more heavily predated.
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evra
Full Member
Posts: 230
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Post by evra on Mar 23, 2021 14:05:05 GMT -8
In my experience rearing C. splendens is that when they are ready to pupate, they come down off the plant and start to wander, they secrete a small amount of a sticky translucent substance at the end of their abdomen and then they start looking for a pupation site. I put mine in a 5 gal bucket of regular bare potting soil and some of the larvae started wandering for days. I got concerned that they wouldn’t burrow and pupate, so I put a rock and some twigs on the surface of the soil sticking out a little bit. As soon as I did this they immediately burrowed and pupated next to the rock. I think this behavior may be an instinct not to pupate on open, barren ground, so that when the adult emerges, it has something to climb up on and suitably expand its wings. They burrow down about 6-8 inches.
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Post by exoticimports on Mar 23, 2021 18:11:32 GMT -8
On what evra said, I've found spingidae pupae under concrete blocks and rocks. If they can cut corners, they will, and burrow under an object as opposed to straight down.
Chuck
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Post by kevinkk on Mar 23, 2021 18:35:19 GMT -8
In my experience rearing C. splendens is that when they are ready to pupate, they come down off the plant and start to wander, they secrete a small amount of a sticky translucent substance at the end of their abdomen and then they start looking for a pupation site. I put mine in a 5 gal bucket of regular bare potting soil and some of the larvae started wandering for days. I got concerned that they wouldn’t burrow and pupate, so I put a rock and some twigs on the surface of the soil sticking out a little bit. As soon as I did this they immediately burrowed and pupated next to the rock. I think this behavior may be an instinct not to pupate on open, barren ground, so that when the adult emerges, it has something to climb up on and suitably expand its wings. They burrow down about 6-8 inches. Exactly what happened with my Citheronia regalis, the bucket, potting soil, I put a lid on it, but the larva just wandered the inside of the bucket in a circle- until I put something in their way, then they dug in about 5-7 inches. |
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jwa121
Junior Member
Posts: 28 
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Post by jwa121 on Mar 24, 2021 9:17:25 GMT -8
Some rearers like to provide their (burrowing) Saturniid caterpillars with a medium (washed sand, for example) in which to pupate. And that's fine. But doing so isn't necessary. Saturniid caterpillars that pupate underground will pupate perfectly in a container containing some torn up, or cut up, damp paper towel. What you must give the larvae (the secret ingredient, so to speak) is total darkness, a complete absence of light. This makes sense biologically since burrowing larvae in Nature will quickly find themselves enveloped in darkness.
The tricky part for the rearer can be coming up with enough pupating containers, since each larva must have its own container. A handy solution (if you drink takeout coffee) is saving your empty takeout coffee cups and lids. I reared a Citheronia and an Eacles (both tropical) last year and both groups of caterpillars pupated in takeout paper coffee cups that I had saved up over a period of time. This method allows you to look at the pre-pupal larvae periodically and be an observer of the process of pupation.
From using this method, and checking on pupating larvae during the week or so it typically takes most of them to pupate, I observed something I found interesting. Saturniid caterpillars ready to pupate will often change colour or at least darken. This colour change, it turns out, isn't necessarily permanent. It can be temporary. I hadn't realized that.
I reared a couple of species of (burrowing) African Saturniids whose green caterpillars, when ready to pupate, turned brown. (Turning brown would seem to be advantageous if you're a green caterpillar about to leave your leafy green tree to crawl about on the ground looking for a place to burrow.) But, after being in total darkness for between 24 and 48 hours, these brown pre-pupal caterpillars changed colour again and reverted to the same green they had been when still feeding. The caterpillars went on to successfully pupate as green, not brown, caterpillars.
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Post by mothman55 on Apr 4, 2021 6:02:48 GMT -8
I have reared Eacles imperialis many times. When they are ready to pupate, they will travel (walk around and defecate) for a day or so, and change color a bit (reddish tone). I just put maybe 6 to 8 inches of soil in each bucket and limit the larvae to 4 or 5 per bucket so they have ample space. Then I carefully dig the pupae up after a couple of weeks and overwinter them. Never had any problems. If you want to be extra careful, you can bake the soil first to kill any pests.
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