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Moth?
Mar 21, 2021 9:12:05 GMT -8
Post by joachim on Mar 21, 2021 9:12:05 GMT -8
Hi, I didn't find this in my books, North Vietnam Thanks for tips Joachim
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Moth?
Mar 21, 2021 9:41:00 GMT -8
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joachim likes this
Post by Paul K on Mar 21, 2021 9:41:00 GMT -8
It is Cyclosia midamia-female
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Moth?
Mar 21, 2021 15:04:41 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by joachim on Mar 21, 2021 15:04:41 GMT -8
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Moth?
Mar 22, 2021 9:29:23 GMT -8
Post by joachim on Mar 22, 2021 9:29:23 GMT -8
thanks Paul!Is that the moth with the cyanide in its leg? Okay, I'm not going to eat it.
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Moth?
Mar 22, 2021 10:21:31 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by Paul K on Mar 22, 2021 10:21:31 GMT -8
thanks Paul!Is that the moth with the cyanide in its leg? Okay, I'm not going to eat it. Yes, it is! Funny thing is that when I was collecting them I wasn’t aware of that and just handle them as all other leps. I suppose I was lucky not to exposed my self to cyanide.
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Moth?
Mar 22, 2021 10:52:24 GMT -8
Post by joachim on Mar 22, 2021 10:52:24 GMT -8
jta.de/dudelsack/cylo1.jpgId this the mal midamia? I found no good picture in the internet and a "pair of didamia" showing this as male and female. thanks Joachim
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Moth?
Mar 22, 2021 11:08:12 GMT -8
Post by Adam Cotton on Mar 22, 2021 11:08:12 GMT -8
I think this is Amesia sanguiflua.
Adam.
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Moth?
Mar 22, 2021 11:15:39 GMT -8
Post by livingplanet3 on Mar 22, 2021 11:15:39 GMT -8
thanks Paul!Is that the moth with the cyanide in its leg? Okay, I'm not going to eat it. Yes, it is! Funny thing is that when I was collecting them I wasn’t aware of that and just handle them as all other leps. I suppose I was lucky not to exposed my self to cyanide. Aren't most of the poisons (e.g. - glycosides, aristolochic acid) that are contained in many species of Lepidoptera only truly dangerous if actually ingested, though? Surely, just handling the insects themselves is quite safe? Of course, you would likely want to avoid prolonged direct skin contact with the plants (e.g. - Asclepias, Aristolochia) from which the insects derive such toxins, as this has caused localized dermatitis in some people. EDIT: I just checked some info about the Cyclosia midamia moth; apparently, it's somewhat unusual in that it actually excretes its poison (hydrogen cyanide) as droplets when disturbed, putting the poison in contact with a predator even if not ingested. So, yes, probably not a good idea to handle these particular moths without protective gloves.
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Moth?
Mar 22, 2021 11:49:10 GMT -8
Post by nomihoudai on Mar 22, 2021 11:49:10 GMT -8
Yes, it is! Funny thing is that when I was collecting them I wasn’t aware of that and just handle them as all other leps. I suppose I was lucky not to exposed my self to cyanide. Aren't most of the poisons (e.g. - glycosides, aristolochic acid) that are contained in many species of Lepidoptera only truly dangerous if actually ingested, though? Surely, just handling the insects themselves is quite safe? Of course, you would likely want to avoid prolonged direct skin contact with the plants (e.g. - Asclepias, Aristolochia) from which the insects derive such toxins, as this has caused localized dermatitis in some people. EDIT: I just checked some info about the Cyclosia midamia moth; apparently, it's somewhat unusual in that it actually excretes its poison (hydrogen cyanide) as droplets when disturbed, putting the poison in contact with a predator even if not ingested. So, yes, probably not a good idea to handle these particular moths without protective gloves. I ran the math. You would need to eat between 2 and 10 of them, or you would need to have 120 of them release their toxins in a small room (12m^2). Not impossible, but all somewhat unlikely.
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Post by Paul K on Mar 22, 2021 12:11:26 GMT -8
Adam is correct it is Amesia sanguiflua
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Moth?
Mar 22, 2021 12:27:27 GMT -8
Post by Adam Cotton on Mar 22, 2021 12:27:27 GMT -8
Here is a pair of Cyclosia midamia from North Vietnam illustrated on page 21 of Endo & Kishida (1999). Day-Flying Moths. Chalcosiinae • Epicopeia. Endless Science Information, Tokyo, Japan. 120pp. The male is the top specimen, female below: Adam.
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Moth?
Mar 22, 2021 12:31:37 GMT -8
Post by livingplanet3 on Mar 22, 2021 12:31:37 GMT -8
I ran the math. You would need to eat between 2 and 10 of them, or you would need to have 120 of them release their toxins in a small room (12m^2). Not impossible, but all somewhat unlikely. I've noticed that Hypercompe scribonia (family Erebidae) also secretes droplets of a defensive fluid (from the thorax) when disturbed, but I'm not sure if it's actually toxic. It may merely be a foul-tasting deterrent to predators -
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Moth?
Mar 22, 2021 12:39:42 GMT -8
Post by Adam Cotton on Mar 22, 2021 12:39:42 GMT -8
Hi, I didn't find this in my books, North Vietnam Thanks for tips Joachim I wonder if this is actually Cyclosia imitans female? The wing shape looks more like imitans than C. midamia. Adam.
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Moth?
Mar 22, 2021 13:00:42 GMT -8
Post by Paul K on Mar 22, 2021 13:00:42 GMT -8
Here is my pair of C.midamia from East/Central Laos. Top male, bottom female
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Moth?
Mar 22, 2021 13:03:57 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by nomihoudai on Mar 22, 2021 13:03:57 GMT -8
livingplanet3 Cyclosia use HCN, which is highly toxic and volatile. This is how I was able to calculate what can happen. I don't know what Hypercompe uses but I guess it's just some distasteful liquid.
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