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Post by wollastoni on Mar 22, 2021 6:40:15 GMT -8
Well it’s been 14 hours in the fridge. I checked a papilio glaucus and it’s still stiff as it was in the paper. Waiting for the magic to happen. No need to wait more. It means you didn't put at all enough water. Check the video to see the right amount of water to spray. If done correctly as in the video, it cannot be "as stiff as in the paper".
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Post by exoticimports on Mar 22, 2021 8:19:00 GMT -8
My paper is saturated since none of the specimens are species prone to water damage.
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mikeh
Full Member
Posts: 207
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Post by mikeh on Mar 22, 2021 8:43:18 GMT -8
This is more or less the method I have used for several years. I think putting it in the fridge does slow it down a little and I usually wait about 36-48 hours before trying to spread, just like any method sometimes some bugs take a little longer than expected. I like using the fridge since that inhibits mold growth without the use of chemicals and it also seems to give a longer period to spread, even if I leave the specimens in the fridge an extra few days it does not seem to cause any damage so I have a several day period to find time to put them on the pinning board.
I usually remove specimens from envelopes carefully but if they were packed with a paper towel around the body that is not dyed I include that.
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Post by exoticimports on Mar 22, 2021 15:58:40 GMT -8
It hit 24 hours, so I checked again. Specimens are very stiff- about the same, maybe moreso, than if left at room temperature. So I removed the bin from the refrigerator, and it's back to the old routine at room temperature.
I can't figure out how a specimen, even a Delias sized one, could be ready in 24 hours. It's the same technique I use, minus the fridge, and mine take 3-4 days.
Chuck
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Post by 58chevy on Mar 23, 2021 11:45:31 GMT -8
I usually put multiple layers of wet paper towels both below and above the the specimen. I saturate the paper to the point that the butterfly is almost floating in water. A light sprinkle of water won't cut it. Leaving the specimen in the container overnight (8-12 hours) is usually enough to relax the specimen to the point where it can be safely mounted. I've never had water stains from this method, but I don't think I've ever relaxed species that are prone to stains. In my experience, most N. American lepidoptera will not stain. If there are stain-prone species, I'd like to see a list.
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Post by wollastoni on Mar 23, 2021 14:42:41 GMT -8
Thank you 58chevy for confirming this method works in 12 hours. I wish I knew it in the past ! 12 hours seem sometimes enough, sometimes a bit too short for my Delias. But 24 hours does the trick perfectly ! On only one specimen I had to wait for 48 hours, no idea why.
In Europe, Gonepteryx species can be water stained.
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Post by livingplanet3 on Mar 26, 2021 18:09:13 GMT -8
Okay, I'll try it with my current dead stock, my Ornithoptera. I could use some help, because now it's taking a week with periodic injections of water and a close eye on on possible mold. I will be posting my results for sure, I'm going to put a male O. croesus toeantei in the fridge tonight. Was wondering - how did the refrigerator relaxation method work for your O. c. toeantei?
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Post by kevinkk on Mar 26, 2021 19:28:47 GMT -8
What a coinkydink. I know some of you have been waiting for me to pop up here. I didn't want to post my first experience using this method, because I used it to finish off the female toeantei I was in the process of relaxing.
However, I just set the male, which started out completely dry. I used moistened paper towels, left the specimen in the glassine, the ink on my envelopes did not run, but I make labels beforehand. I used a little Oxine for disinfectant, I first put the specimen in the closed plastic container on 3-20, in the mid-morning. I checked it twice, and it was looking like it was going to work. No mold, and I just set the male a few minutes ago, this method is much better than the warm humid way I was using before, the specimen didn't take long to work with, and the wings seemed to move easily, without bending unnaturally. As well as not being soaked in moisture, which makes things difficult. The specimen actually seemed like a fresh insect, not one that's been soaked in a warm humid environment.
This is super. I started with the less expensive species, and I just put my O. goliath procus female in the relaxing chamber. So, I think an extra day wouldn't have hurt with the toeantei male, and the procus female is going to get that extra day, maybe two. 24 hours may work for smaller bodied species, and I'll be trying it sometime with dead leaf mimics, maybe more moisture would have sped up the process, I don't know. I'm not in a rush, or have a backlog, I've got 4 specimens left to set, including the female I put in the tupperware tonight.
Now I'm wondering about space again, Ornithoptera are big butterflies, and this method with the cool temperatures, gives me more confidence about buying dead stock. I wish I'd have known about this maybe 6 weeks ago, at any rate, I think it's sound, and it worked for me
even if it's not 24 hours for every species, it's better than what I was doing
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Post by exoticimports on Mar 26, 2021 19:33:18 GMT -8
Well what the heck. I followed the instructions to the word.
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Post by kevinkk on Mar 26, 2021 19:42:31 GMT -8
I don't know, I've got a temp gauge in the fridge, it runs about 38f, and there is clearly condensation on the lid of my container, I'm assuming the humidity in there is 100%, but there's no room for a gauge in with my specimen.
I gave the paper towels some good misting, wet, not dripping, 4 layers of towel, 2 below, and 2 above. the container is 7"x 9" x 3", but once the 100 % is reached, the size probably doesn't matter.
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Post by Paul K on Mar 26, 2021 19:58:23 GMT -8
Be careful! Ornithoptera is prone to water stain if in direct contact!
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Post by kevinkk on Mar 26, 2021 20:36:39 GMT -8
Be careful! Ornithoptera is prone to water stain if in direct contact! Thanks Paul, I think so far I haven't had a problem, even when I was using the warm humid method I was familiar with, but it did cross my mind, this last specimen stayed "dry" in the glassine, while soaking up the water out of the air. Isn't it weird that an insect can get stained with water? I mean, I know they don't worry about perfection themselves, but it does rain. Is it something that only occurs after death? I'll run out of affordable specimens soon anyway... as well as space, which I'm already pressed for, there is another room though, but I really like being as close to my stuff as possible. When I kept old world chameleons, I had a reptile room, it was a decent setup, but not the same as having the panther chameleon in the living room.
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Post by wollastoni on Mar 27, 2021 1:48:19 GMT -8
The specimen actually seemed like a fresh insect, not one that's been soaked in a warm humid environment. This is super. I started with the less expensive species, and I just put my O. goliath procus female in the relaxing chamber. So, I think an extra day wouldn't have hurt with the toeantei male, and the procus female is going to get that extra day, maybe two. 24 hours may work for smaller bodied species, and I'll be trying it sometime with dead leaf mimics, maybe more moisture would have sped up the process, I don't know. I'm not in a rush, or have a backlog, I've got 4 specimens left to set, including the female I put in the tupperware tonight. Now I'm wondering about space again, Ornithoptera are big butterflies, and this method with the cool temperatures, gives me more confidence about buying dead stock. I wish I'd have known about this maybe 6 weeks ago, at any rate, I think it's sound, and it worked for me even if it's not 24 hours for every species, it's better than what I was doing Great to see that this method works perfectly with your Ornithoptera. I tried with and without the fridge, and I prefer with, I don't know why but the specimens look more relaxed + it prevents moisture to appear fastly. I have spread more than 30 Delias and 2 Agrias with this method now. Chuck, I have no idea why your first trial didn't work. But there must be a reason (amount of water, not totally airtight tupperware, size of the tupperware ?, temperature of the fridge (too cold ? too warm ?), maybe try with another specimen ?). Was your tupperware lid full of droplets at the end of the process ? Mine was. For a Papilio, 24/48 hours should be sufficient.
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Mar 27, 2021 6:26:05 GMT -8
I seldom mount dried "papered" specimens. I paper all my specimens when I am on a collecting trip, local or otherwise. When I return home from collecting the specimens go directly into a freezer. I use "Lock & Lock" containers. When I remove specimens from the freezer to Spread them, I place them in my relaxing container (Lock&Lock), usually over night, and they feel soft, just like when you collected them.
Also, each spreading board is numbered. Once I fill a spreading board with specimens, I pin a label at the end of the board. It will read 21/03/28. I place a data label for each specimen. The second date is 21/04/28. This is date that I can remove from the board.
I store the full boards in a Air Tight Light Tight Cabinet.
I have used the process since I was a teenager, which is before most of you were born!
I began to used this process as a teenager. It just works for me.
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Post by wollastoni on Mar 27, 2021 6:59:43 GMT -8
Yes, freezing fresh specimens is a good practice. But you cannot always do this (exotic trips, exchange, purchase...).
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