a little push

[kevinkk]

So, after reading the current thread abut Ornithoptera, I've been thinking. First I looked at ebay and found enough papered material in the states,
I'm not keen on going overseas, at least now.
Then I tried some experiments on Papilio polyxenes I had pinned, I've got a lot of them. I used Barbers relaxing fluid, and it seems to work well
it is made of ethyl alcohol and acetate with some Benzene.
I read the threads about relaxing, I can't buy drinking alcohol, yes, I'm over 21, and I'll leave it there.
So, it seems different species react differently with the various techniques mentioned, hot water and so forth.
The subject of staining concerns me though, do I need to just buy something inexpensive and give it a go?
I've got a nice case I'd like to fill up, buying spread material is more expensive, and won't work in my space, unless I can
remove and pin them.
Is it worth the extra money to buy mounted material and spare the risk of relaxing?
I suppose at some point I will have to try and relax dry specimens.
?

[nomihoudai]

Personally, I only mounted some Troides and Ornithoptera priamus. I would just use a box with paper towels and hot water on those. Injecting very hot water (after boiling) also helped and at least with O. priamus I didn't run an issue. Start with the cheaper species and then buy expensive ones. Green O. priamus, Indonesian Troides, and when I remember correctly Ornithoptera rothschildi can be found at cheaper prices. The really expensive ones are always best bought at a fair where you can see them and you don't need to bother relaxing them.

[kevinkk]

Jan 28, 2021 18:48:57 GMT -8 nomihoudai said:

Personally, I only mounted some Troides and Ornithoptera priamus. I would just use a box with paper towels and hot water on those. Injecting very hot water (after boiling) also helped and at least with O. priamus I didn't run an issue. Start with the cheaper species and then buy expensive ones. Green O. priamus, Indonesian Troides, and when I remember correctly Ornithoptera rothschildi can be found at cheaper prices. The really expensive ones are always best bought at a fair where you can see them and you don't need to bother relaxing them.

Thank you, logical and sensible. It is weird that a butterfly can be stained by water, if that's what is really happening, but butterflies don't
worry about being A1.

[Crake]

I agree. I've been doing my own spreading for about a year now without many apprehensions towards low-moderately priced specimens. If you're considering a serious investment, it really depends on whether you're willing to take the small risk of damaging it. Personally, I'd settle with the safest option to mitigate the risk of wasting my money. Additionally, the extra cost of ordering it pre-mounted would be comparatively small to a truly expensive specimen. 

I've found the most effective relaxing methods to be injecting it with hot water, perforating the wing muscles with a pin, (4-5 times on each joint for larger specimens), repeatedly pinching the thorax, and leaving it a few days inside the relaxing chamber. 

I was able to relax several smaller specimens almost instantaneously using this method.

I hope this helps you decide. 

[yorky]

Green ornithoptera and some lycaenidae are quite prone to water staining so I never let the wings come into direct contact with water. Injecting with hot water is the method for these, I can have them almost as pliable as freshly killed specimens in an hour but you must wet the antenna too, plus a properly relaxed specimen will stay flat whereas one that is not will lift in time. Charaxes  agrias and prepona are quite rightly regarded as difficult to relax  some are very expensive so you need to be confident with your relaxing techniques and spreading method, this male acraeoides took an hour to be ready after removing it from the paper envelope. 

[58chevy]

From a previous post (not sure whose technique this is):

If you have large butterflies like Ornithoptera, Troides or Stichophthalma, just put the butterflies in a relaxing chamber for 5 hours, inject a small amount of vodka, and leave the specimens to continue relaxing for at least 10 hours. So within 15 hours a specimen as large as an Ornithoptera would be ready to be relaxed easily. Vodka is the traditional Russian alcohol or whatever equivalent you can find. The results would be as if the specimens were fresh.

[trehopr1]

Glad to see you replied to this topic yorky. I knew that you would be the guy
to talk with about these challenging specimens as you have remarked about these
before in other posts.

I have always found your knowledge in these matters very informative.

[yorky]

Trial and error over 40 years, you find new and more efficient ways and techniques as you go along. I have to self inject myself often due to an autoimmune disorder and I save the syringes to use on specimens, they are just the right size.

[kevinkk]

Jan 29, 2021 8:55:46 GMT -8 yorky said:

Trial and error over 40 years, you find new and more efficient ways and techniques as you go along. I have to self inject myself often due to an autoimmune disorder and I save the syringes to use on specimens, they are just the right size.

Thanks everyone, this is why I like the forum, I wish we'd saved saved some of my Dad's hypodermics, I think you need a scrip now to get them,
I'll find out later  today at the pharmacy.
I liked reading about the origins thread, another reason I like the forum.

[marsdenda]

It is easy to buy syringes on line. I use them for collecting moths and have no problem ordering them online.

Dave

[wingedwishes]

Insulin syringes are available at Walmart in a box of 50-100 without a prescription. I used to have many of them til I changed to prefilled syringes. They are over the counter in Kansas but I think some states have restrictions. Strange because other states have given out syringes at no cost to drug addicts to prevent the spread of disease.

[kevinkk]

Thanks again. I bought 2 different gauges of syringes at the pharmacy today. Something else has occurred to me about spreading dry
lepidoptera, I've been using flat boards for a long time, but maybe besides the aesthetics, it's easier to spread relaxed specimens on
an angled board.
Now I just need a few more things and I'll let you know how it goes.

[kevinkk]

Ok, so I leapt into it, I've got my supplies and 3 species on the way. I'll let you know more later.
I would like to hear thoughts about the possible difference of it being easier to use angled boards
for relaxed specimens though.

[Paul K]

Jan 29, 2021 21:22:22 GMT -8 kevinkk said:

Ok, so I leapt into it, I've got my supplies and 3 species on the way. I'll let you know more later.
I would like to hear thoughts about the possible difference of it being easier to use angled boards
for relaxed specimens though.

It’s better to use flat boards for dry papered specimens.

[bobw]

The problem with angled boards is that on some specimens the wings can lift and you end up with "V"-shaped specimens. I'm continually having to reset specimens that have been set this way.