leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Nov 27, 2020 11:15:25 GMT -8
I am not sure of the current process. I do know that if you are involved with the McGuire Center, they are willing to help you get permits.
You may also be required to donate all collected specimens to the McGuire Center. My collection will go to the McGuire Center when my life comes to an end. Should you reside in Florida you can obtain a permit through McGuire (Lepidoptera) or through FSCA for all other insect Orders.
Should you reside in Florida, getting a collecting permit requires some research on your part. However, provide the State of Florida with some good records, life history info, etc, etc, renewing your permit will be rather easy.
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Post by trehopr1 on Nov 27, 2020 11:45:39 GMT -8
I don't personally think collecting Marcellus should ever be that much bother with (permits, Mcquire Center involvement, relinquishing specimens etc...)
Just go to another area in Florida and collect them to your hearts content; provided of coarse your timing is good...
My friend had a blast when he encountered them on 2 separate "hatches" AND he freely collected as many as he could "nab" and answered to no one and gave up nothing to nobody.
As collecting common species should be !!
*After all we are not talking about the Schaus swallowtail here.
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Nov 27, 2020 12:46:35 GMT -8
I always like to collect the large summer form. I also collected some monsters in Mississppi and coastal North Carolina.
Another bigger than life butterfly in Mississippi, Cercyonis pegala pegala. They were monsters. The north Florida population and those along the South East Coast (NC, SC, & GA) Were monster's as well.
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Post by trehopr1 on Nov 27, 2020 14:09:15 GMT -8
Leroy, you once showed us a wonderful drawer of maynardi.
Have you ever measured any of them wingtip to wingtip ?
If you ever have the chance to measure one or two of your largest examples I would like to know if they EXCEED my 12.3 cm. example in size.
If you should care to do this sometime then, please make sure the measurements are in centimeters (preferably) due to the worldwide audience that we have here. Thanks...
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Post by trehopr1 on Nov 27, 2020 14:12:51 GMT -8
Also, yes indeed your C. pegala drawer which you also showed us once was incredible...
Those were undoubtedly the largest North American Satyrines that I have ever seen !
Those examples were absolutely stunning.
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Post by eurytides on Nov 27, 2020 17:18:46 GMT -8
I don't personally think collecting Marcellus should ever be that much bother with (permits, Mcquire Center involvement, relinquishing specimens etc...) Just go to another area in Florida and collect them to your hearts content; provided of coarse your timing is good... My friend had a blast when he encountered them on 2 separate "hatches" AND he freely collected as many as he could "nab" and answered to no one and gave up nothing to nobody. As collecting common species should be !! *After all we are not talking about the Schaus swallowtail here. That’s easier said than done. If I have a family trip or conference in Tampa, it’s not really feasible for me to drive out of the city for several hours just to collect butterflies. Yet, everything that is relatively close are parks or nature preserves where collecting needs a permit. I agree that for common species, you should be able to collect them anywhere you want, but law enforcement officers disagree! As for Schaus, go to the Bahamas. Same subspecies. |
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Post by trehopr1 on Nov 27, 2020 19:46:15 GMT -8
Well, I won't comment about nature reserves in that area as yes one should probably not be seen in the area with net in hand.
However, as far as parks goes or other very "public" places; I would probably scope out the available sites first. Then, if I found a spot (some flowering bushes or flower patch) that was "active" with Marcellus (or what have you); I'd go to the car and grab the net and kill bottles and spend maybe a half hour "nabbing" what I could --- then leave. Re-visit the the same place within the next day or two (only go at a different time) and once again "bag" whatever can be had. Heck, maybe even stay longer !
If somebody says something (officer or otherwise) you just play dum and tell em' you are un-aware of any ordinances as you are an (out of towner) and/or tourist who just happens to like butterflies...
What are they really gonna do ! Arrest you... Take your net away (carry along a cheap one), give an out of town tourist a fine...
Really.......
Nonsense, they will tell you at BEST all about their ordinance (if they even know of it) or they'll tell you to leave....
I doubt very much they would tell you to hand over your already dead butterflies.
Local "law enforcement" types have got far more important people and things to be out "on the look for" than people with butterfly nets or bird watcher types with binoculars.
Ha, live a little... Rules were mean't to be broken !
Just stay away from those nature preserves where "absurdity" runs rampant !
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Nov 28, 2020 4:14:44 GMT -8
Trehoper said; "Thanks Leroy. Unfortunately, I don’t reside in Florida and my collection is nowhere near as impressive as yours so I’m pretty sure there’s not much I can do to get McGuire’s attention."""
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I think you will be surprised at what the McGuire Center could do for you. You need to visit the McGuire Center and make yourself known. Donate some specimens, especially some moths from your area.
Also,join the Southern Lepidopterists Society. Even if you only occasionally visit Florida, take a hand full of prepared specimens from your area to the McGuire Center.It will get your foot in the door.
The Southern Lepidopterists' Society
Dues are $30.00 annually.
Send dues to:
Jeffrey R. Slotten: Treasurer
5422 NW 69th Lane
Gainesville, Florida. 32653
They have a great Newsletter and they hold some enjoyable and informative annual meetings with great field trips.
I am one of the founding fathers and former News letter Editors.
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Nov 28, 2020 14:41:11 GMT -8
Leroy, you once showed us a wonderful drawer of maynardi. Have you ever measured any of them wingtip to wingtip ? If you ever have the chance to measure one or two of your largest examples I would like to know if they EXCEED my 12.3 cm. example in size. If you should care to do this sometime then, please make sure the measurements are in centimeters (preferably) due to the worldwide audience that we have here. Thanks... I am reluctant to post photographs of my collection these days. I have been called a braggart and a show off the last several times I posted photographs of my collection. I have been collecting longer than most of you have been alive. And now that I am retired and a Widow, I can go collecting anytime my hearts desires. I have worked most of the day updating several of my Flat Bottom Bait Traps to Slotted Pan Type Bait Traps. I just want to be ready when those very few warm winter days happen. |
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Nov 28, 2020 14:51:35 GMT -8
trehopr1: When and where did your friend collect all of those Protographium marcellus. I assume mid-summer by their size and tail length.
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Post by trehopr1 on Nov 28, 2020 17:31:52 GMT -8
Hello Leptraps, my friend had 2 great outings encountering P. marcellus in (2012 + 2015). Pure happenstance... Both times he was in the Kissimmee area of Florida (two different places); he has a "timeshare" there.
In 2012, he hit on them the 3rd wk. of September. In 2015, he hit on them the 4th wk. of September.
He was on a "hatch" both times as virtually every one he collected the (first couple days) were ex-pupa (as you can see).
To this day I am still envious of his good fortune but, he has been very kind in letting me pick out 4 (for myself) and of my choosing...
*On a side note, I did not request you show us your maynardi again, I only asked if you would "measure" a couple of your larger ones
to determine their size in centimeters. My bigger one is 12.3 cm. (wing tip - wing tip) as you see it in the photo.
*Just was wondering if you caught any which were even larger than mine ?
Best Regards...
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Post by 58chevy on Nov 29, 2020 7:45:39 GMT -8
Which is the more current classification for the zebra swallowtail, Eurytides or Protographium?
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Post by Adam Cotton on Nov 29, 2020 9:25:25 GMT -8
Eurytides - genus Protographium is not related to the American Leptocircini. See Jing Zhang, Qian Cong, Jinhui Shen, Paul A. Opler and Nick V. Grishin 2019. Changes to North American butterfly names. The Taxonomic Report, 8(2). Available here: lepsurvey.carolinanature.com/ttr/ttr-8-2.pdfRelevant text: Family Papilionidae Latreille, [1802] Mimoides Brown, 1991 is a subgenus of Eurytides Hübner, [1821] Previously placed in the genus Mimoides Brown, 1991 (type species Papilio ariarathes, Esper, 1788), Papilio phaon Boisduval, 1836 is sister to Eurytides marcellus (Cramer, 1777) among butterflies of Canada and the US, and is phylogenetically close to Eurytides philolaus (Boisduval, 1836), suggesting that it should be placed in the genus Eurytides Hübner, [1821] (type species Eurytides iphitas Hübner, [1821]) (Fig. 1). Additionally taking into account that Mimoides species are close to each other as evidenced by their morphology (Tyler et al. 1994) and COI barcodes (Ratnasingham & Hebert 2007), we propose to treat Mimoides as a subgenus of Eurytides among its other subgenera: Protesilaus Swainson, [1832] (type species Papilio protesilaus Linnaeus, 1758) and Neographium Möhn, 2002 (type species Papilio philolaus Boisduval, 1836). Curiously, Papilio marcellus Cramer, 1777 is in the same clade with Mimoides, but is in a different clade from Neographium, and therefore should be included in the subgenus Mimoides despite the similarity in wing patterns to Eurytides (Neographium) philolaus. Finally, application of the genus Protographium Munroe (1961) (type species Papilio leosthenes E. Doubleday, 1846) to the New World is unwarranted, because genomic data show that the Australian endemic P. leosthenes is sister to another Old World genus Graphium Scopoli, 1777 (type species Papilio sarpedon Linnaeus, 1758) and is in a different clade from Eurytides (including Mimoides and Neographium) (Fig. 1). Eurytides versus Protographium is yet another case of striking wing pattern convergence in butterflies.
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Post by 58chevy on Nov 30, 2020 0:07:00 GMT -8
Since Leroy is reluctant to post the size of his biggest maynardi, I attempted an estimate. I found a photo he posted of a P. glaucus drawer that included maynardi specimens. I measured the wingspan of the largest maynardi in the drawer (a dark form female) and calculated its size based on the width of the drawer. The photo is slightly distorted because of the camera angle, so my calculation is probably not exact. Assuming the drawer is a standard Cornell drawer, the butterfly's wingspan appears to be a whopping 13.1 cm! Leroy, can you confirm or correct the measurement?
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Post by gaspipe on Nov 30, 2020 4:32:22 GMT -8
Since Leroy is reluctant to post the size of his biggest maynardi, I attempted an estimate. I found a photo he posted of a P. glaucus drawer that included maynardi specimens. I measured the wingspan of the largest maynardi in the drawer (a dark form female) and calculated its size based on the width of the drawer. The photo is slightly distorted because of the camera angle, so my calculation is probably not exact. Assuming the drawer is a standard Cornell drawer, the butterfly's wingspan appears to be a whopping 13.1 cm! Leroy, can you confirm or correct the measurement? Wow I’am impressed . Either you are very determined or you have way to much time on your hands .....perhaps both ! |
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